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> You could vertically integrate backwards into the production of raw materials and components, in the hopes of driving down those costs This is my takeaway: t

> You could vertically integrate backwards into the production of raw materials and components, in the hopes of driving down those costs This is my takeaway: to reduce home-construction costs, we need to apply economies of scale further to the inputs. What is the idiot index for lumber, drywall, et cetera?

nonethewiser 6mo ago
Inputs are definitely a big cost but thats where economies of scale are already able to work their magic I would assume. What would the barriers be for a big builder to leverage economies of scale in procuring lumber, drywall, etc?
- bluGill 6mo ago
  They really can't because all the things where scale would apply is already standardized. You buy 2x4's in the 92 and 5/8's length. And you put it up and that makes your 8 foot wall after adding the top and bottom plates. We laugh about how a 2x4 isn't really a 2x4 but that doesn't matter because the important part is it's a standard dimension you can get from anyone and so the people who make them already have the scale. Similar for drywall, it comes in standard sizes to fit standard size walls. It's made in large factories that take advantage of all the scale factors for you, but they don't care if the customer is big or small because they're making the same thing. The factory sells the stuff by the railroad car and lumberyard is what buy them and so you can't even get scaled by producing separately because the lumberyard is essentially what you'd have to do and you're duplicating exactly what they're doing and Essentially you're just taking in their profit, but you're not actually gaining anything
  - bombcar 6mo ago
    I've always dreamed of a house designed to minimize cuts; walls exactly the right length to use full sheets of drywall, etc. The reality: it wouldn't save hardly anything, tradesmen are good at what they do.
    - bluGill 5mo ago
      In reality your 10 foot 2x4 is an inch or two longer than 10 feet long. Cutting a few two length isn't where the time goes since tradesmen have saws to do in in a few seconds and most boards are not cut. I did work construction - we did one house with 10 foot walls and cutting the studs to length cost a lot of time, but that was one house out of the 50 or so that I worked on
fragmede 6mo ago
The number of different trades that are involved with building a house is what complicates things and drives timelines and cost up. I wonder if you mass produced a (large) widget that was water and sewer and an AC/heating unit and an electrical panel all in one, so the widget would be a bathroom/kitchen/living room central core, with electrical, that homebuilders could just drop in, if that would reduce coordination issues.
- idiotsecant 6mo ago
  Sounds like an absolute nightmare. All those components connect to other things and all you did was make a single enormous node that everything hooks to.
  - fragmede 6mo ago
    The homebuilder would drop in this all-in-one node that is the literal kitchen sink, electrical for the stove and refrigerator, the shower, toilet, bathroom sink, duct and wiring for the heater/AC, wiring for the living room, and the electrical panel. Yes it'd a total nightmare, but people pay to have their problems solved. By constructing this node in a factory, you'd be able to get economies of scale, not just on the parts but on the labor as well. Wouldn't have to do it in the cramped confines of doing it in place either like the article mentions.
    - stouset 6mo ago
      You don’t realize it, but all you’re doing is building a Homer car[1]. [1] https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 6mo ago
      >The homebuilder would drop in this all-in-one node that is the literal kitchen sink, electrical for the stove and refrigerator, the shower, toilet, This is perfect for the future. Your pod will look like one of those supermax prison cells where the sink is built into the toilet because it is a supermax prison cell! There will be this central shoot where your bugmeal bread load will drop down into the hopper tray once a day and the treadmill for your exercise will charge your phone for entertainment and it will be legally mandated to have the Facebook app installed. Just wonderful. We now live in a world with a shrinking population. There is no need to build new homes. Soon we'll be worried about how to tear down all the empty ones but we won't have the manpower.

nonethewiser 6mo ago

Inputs are definitely a big cost but thats where economies of scale are already able to work their magic I would assume. What would the barriers be for a big builder to leverage economies of scale in procuring lumber, drywall, etc?

bluGill 6mo ago
They really can't because all the things where scale would apply is already standardized. You buy 2x4's in the 92 and 5/8's length. And you put it up and that makes your 8 foot wall after adding the top and bottom plates. We laugh about how a 2x4 isn't really a 2x4 but that doesn't matter because the important part is it's a standard dimension you can get from anyone and so the people who make them already have the scale. Similar for drywall, it comes in standard sizes to fit standard size walls. It's made in large factories that take advantage of all the scale factors for you, but they don't care if the customer is big or small because they're making the same thing. The factory sells the stuff by the railroad car and lumberyard is what buy them and so you can't even get scaled by producing separately because the lumberyard is essentially what you'd have to do and you're duplicating exactly what they're doing and Essentially you're just taking in their profit, but you're not actually gaining anything
- bombcar 6mo ago
  I've always dreamed of a house designed to minimize cuts; walls exactly the right length to use full sheets of drywall, etc. The reality: it wouldn't save hardly anything, tradesmen are good at what they do.
  - bluGill 5mo ago
    In reality your 10 foot 2x4 is an inch or two longer than 10 feet long. Cutting a few two length isn't where the time goes since tradesmen have saws to do in in a few seconds and most boards are not cut. I did work construction - we did one house with 10 foot walls and cutting the studs to length cost a lot of time, but that was one house out of the 50 or so that I worked on

fragmede 6mo ago

The number of different trades that are involved with building a house is what complicates things and drives timelines and cost up. I wonder if you mass produced a (large) widget that was water and sewer and an AC/heating unit and an electrical panel all in one, so the widget would be a bathroom/kitchen/living room central core, with electrical, that homebuilders could just drop in, if that would reduce coordination issues.

idiotsecant 6mo ago
Sounds like an absolute nightmare. All those components connect to other things and all you did was make a single enormous node that everything hooks to.
- fragmede 6mo ago
  The homebuilder would drop in this all-in-one node that is the literal kitchen sink, electrical for the stove and refrigerator, the shower, toilet, bathroom sink, duct and wiring for the heater/AC, wiring for the living room, and the electrical panel. Yes it'd a total nightmare, but people pay to have their problems solved. By constructing this node in a factory, you'd be able to get economies of scale, not just on the parts but on the labor as well. Wouldn't have to do it in the cramped confines of doing it in place either like the article mentions.
  - stouset 6mo ago
    You don’t realize it, but all you’re doing is building a Homer car[1]. [1] https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 6mo ago
    >The homebuilder would drop in this all-in-one node that is the literal kitchen sink, electrical for the stove and refrigerator, the shower, toilet, This is perfect for the future. Your pod will look like one of those supermax prison cells where the sink is built into the toilet because it is a supermax prison cell! There will be this central shoot where your bugmeal bread load will drop down into the hopper tray once a day and the treadmill for your exercise will charge your phone for entertainment and it will be legally mandated to have the Facebook app installed. Just wonderful. We now live in a world with a shrinking population. There is no need to build new homes. Soon we'll be worried about how to tear down all the empty ones but we won't have the manpower.