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If you participate in this competition you’re effectively giving free research to a weapons company who will use it to improve their killer drones. I’m not judg

by ok_dad 5mo ago

If you participate in this competition you’re effectively giving free research to a weapons company who will use it to improve their killer drones. I’m not judging but that’s what this is. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am. I only say this because technologists sometimes don’t think about the reasons behind things, they just see a fun problem to solve.

danAtElodin 5mo ago
Anduril is far ahead of anything we can produce here for this competition, but it's certainly a great method for them to identify potential talent who can bring needed skills to their team, hence the grand prize of a job offer. The terms of the competition is they get to use any submission for marketing purposes but the IP remains with the participants. Personally I'm in the camp that the world has bad guys, and they are building technology too. Smartest to make sure yours is better. Professionally we only work on defensive systems, which are in high demand these days.
- ok_dad 5mo ago
  We can defend from drones without building our own autonomous drone killing machines. The real danger here is that we have bad guys at home who will use this tech on us if we give them the chance, so personally I’m opposed to building it. Not like I can do anything other than comment here and vote. I’m really not judging anyone who does, there’s a lot of nuance here that honestly makes it hard to argue you’re wrong or I’m right in this discussion.
  - danAtElodin 5mo ago
    Completely agree, details matter for sure. I just returned from a visit to Odessa Ukraine, and observed a maelstrom of drone on drone combat right outside my hotel window to booms and shaking glass. Those experiences make me want to help defend against the indiscriminate strikes however I can. But I concede there is danger in providing the tools.
- folkrav 5mo ago
  > Personally I'm in the camp that the world has bad guys, and they are building technology too. Smartest to make sure yours is better. I get the idea, but it is also the same argument that has fueled the nuclear arms race that stuck all of us in this permanent launch-on-warning, mutually assured destruction situation.
knollimar 5mo ago
Relevant blog post someone threw last time something like this got posted: https://calebhearth.com/dont-get-distracted https://calebhearth.com/dont-get-distracted
- ok_dad 5mo ago
  Very relevant thank you
- danAtElodin 5mo ago
  I appreciate it, I'd not seen this before, great perspective
  - danAtElodin 4mo ago
    So I got a chance to watch this fully through, and fun fact, I was in Iraq as an Armored Cavalry officer when this technology was deployed with the embedded Seal team and special forces unit we supported. I'm very sorry this engineer clearly regrets being what he regards as tricked into developing the technology, but from my experiences, his guilt is misplaced. That technology saved a ton of lives, and allowed us to track and apprehend some really bad dudes. I was the operations center battle captain at the time, so I had a really high degree of knowledge of the information being used to decide on targeting, and it was 100% professional. Huge dossiers on mass pitt style murders, with video evidence, that was required before a target was actioned on, after months of planning. I have zero regrets; this developer should be very proud of his work. I acknowledge that in theory some bad actors can abuse technology for ill, and this current admin definitely disappoints me constantly. But I'm glad we had this tech when we needed it, so as many of my friends could come home as did. We had over a thousand casualties in Iraq over my two deployments, and my unit was 100% all about helping pursue stability and local governance, no nefarious story telling I ever saw. Was it worth all of those lives and money? I'd say no, but only because we as Americans and our system of government doesn't allow for long term thinking, planning, and persistence required to make generational change happen.
fragmede 5mo ago
As push comes to shove, I'd prefer our drones are better than Iran/Russia's.
- ok_dad 5mo ago
  The only reason we’re in this mess with Iran is a dumbass president; as for Russia, same thing. I’m not gonna reward the military industrial complex just because they backed a moron. On topic: I would prefer we research defenses for drones instead of drones themselves.
  - danAtElodin 5mo ago
    I totally agree, very interested anti-drone defenses. You can actually use much of this to model and simulate the drones you want to stop just as well.
  - fragmede 5mo ago
    I would prefer our drone defenses actually work against real drones, and that only happens by having real opponents. Or do you not believe in red teaming?
    - zamadatix 4mo ago
      Red teaming is fine but we already have the actual red team drones to make sure they work against.
    - ok_dad 4mo ago
      That isn’t real opponents, it’s useful for training but you don’t need actual drones to red team. I don’t know how many times I had to use my imagination in the military when we were fighting paper opponents that were non existent but we had to maneuver and walk through processes as if we had a missile inbound. Or those situations where we had a real target but we weren’t allowed to actually shoot at it because it was reserved for another unit to actually shoot at.

by ok_dad 5mo ago

danAtElodin 5mo ago

Anduril is far ahead of anything we can produce here for this competition, but it's certainly a great method for them to identify potential talent who can bring needed skills to their team, hence the grand prize of a job offer. The terms of the competition is they get to use any submission for marketing purposes but the IP remains with the participants. Personally I'm in the camp that the world has bad guys, and they are building technology too. Smartest to make sure yours is better. Professionally we only work on defensive systems, which are in high demand these days.

ok_dad 5mo ago
We can defend from drones without building our own autonomous drone killing machines. The real danger here is that we have bad guys at home who will use this tech on us if we give them the chance, so personally I’m opposed to building it. Not like I can do anything other than comment here and vote. I’m really not judging anyone who does, there’s a lot of nuance here that honestly makes it hard to argue you’re wrong or I’m right in this discussion.
- danAtElodin 5mo ago
  Completely agree, details matter for sure. I just returned from a visit to Odessa Ukraine, and observed a maelstrom of drone on drone combat right outside my hotel window to booms and shaking glass. Those experiences make me want to help defend against the indiscriminate strikes however I can. But I concede there is danger in providing the tools.
folkrav 5mo ago
> Personally I'm in the camp that the world has bad guys, and they are building technology too. Smartest to make sure yours is better. I get the idea, but it is also the same argument that has fueled the nuclear arms race that stuck all of us in this permanent launch-on-warning, mutually assured destruction situation.

knollimar 5mo ago

Relevant blog post someone threw last time something like this got posted: https://calebhearth.com/dont-get-distracted https://calebhearth.com/dont-get-distracted

ok_dad 5mo ago
Very relevant thank you
danAtElodin 5mo ago
I appreciate it, I'd not seen this before, great perspective
- danAtElodin 4mo ago
  So I got a chance to watch this fully through, and fun fact, I was in Iraq as an Armored Cavalry officer when this technology was deployed with the embedded Seal team and special forces unit we supported. I'm very sorry this engineer clearly regrets being what he regards as tricked into developing the technology, but from my experiences, his guilt is misplaced. That technology saved a ton of lives, and allowed us to track and apprehend some really bad dudes. I was the operations center battle captain at the time, so I had a really high degree of knowledge of the information being used to decide on targeting, and it was 100% professional. Huge dossiers on mass pitt style murders, with video evidence, that was required before a target was actioned on, after months of planning. I have zero regrets; this developer should be very proud of his work. I acknowledge that in theory some bad actors can abuse technology for ill, and this current admin definitely disappoints me constantly. But I'm glad we had this tech when we needed it, so as many of my friends could come home as did. We had over a thousand casualties in Iraq over my two deployments, and my unit was 100% all about helping pursue stability and local governance, no nefarious story telling I ever saw. Was it worth all of those lives and money? I'd say no, but only because we as Americans and our system of government doesn't allow for long term thinking, planning, and persistence required to make generational change happen.

fragmede 5mo ago

As push comes to shove, I'd prefer our drones are better than Iran/Russia's.

ok_dad 5mo ago
The only reason we’re in this mess with Iran is a dumbass president; as for Russia, same thing. I’m not gonna reward the military industrial complex just because they backed a moron. On topic: I would prefer we research defenses for drones instead of drones themselves.
- danAtElodin 5mo ago
  I totally agree, very interested anti-drone defenses. You can actually use much of this to model and simulate the drones you want to stop just as well.
- fragmede 5mo ago
  I would prefer our drone defenses actually work against real drones, and that only happens by having real opponents. Or do you not believe in red teaming?
  - zamadatix 4mo ago
    Red teaming is fine but we already have the actual red team drones to make sure they work against.
  - ok_dad 4mo ago
    That isn’t real opponents, it’s useful for training but you don’t need actual drones to red team. I don’t know how many times I had to use my imagination in the military when we were fighting paper opponents that were non existent but we had to maneuver and walk through processes as if we had a missile inbound. Or those situations where we had a real target but we weren’t allowed to actually shoot at it because it was reserved for another unit to actually shoot at.