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Pi's refusal to drop a USB-C on Pico due to cost increases is a terrible call IMO. I seriously cannot fathom being someone doing development who wouldn't pay $
by peteforde 4mo ago
Pi's refusal to drop a USB-C on Pico due to cost increases is a terrible call IMO.
I seriously cannot fathom being someone doing development who wouldn't pay $0.50 extra to purge the last micro USB from their desktop.
- mrlambchop 4mo agoA very small point, but pulling from a feather form factor BOM to compare. $0.12 for microUSB female connector (rated 1A) $0.26 for a USB-C female (rated 3A). Needs 2 x resistors (< $0.01), 20% larger board area I think the power capabilities are the biggest item. If you want to pull higher current from a laptop for development or supply from a wall, you have to switch to USB-C. I don't think either of these prices are that aggressive - pretty sure the cost comes down at volume.
- bee_rider 4mo agoI wonder if it would be worthwhile for them to produce both. Well, it will be hard to compare because the design cost doesn’t show up in the BOM, haha. But it seems like it would be useful nowadays, since some laptop have mostly USB-C connectors, and USB-C to USB-C is pretty common. I’ve never seen a C to Micro. Do they even exist?
- sagarm 4mo agoI've always used USB-C to USB-A dongle + USB-A to micro B.
- peteforde 4mo agoI have an unfair bias because I design PCBs as a significant part of my job, and switching out to USB on this board appears to be a non-issue. I have a Pico in front of me, and there's plenty of room there for a USB-C footprint and the two 5.1k resistors. Given that, I cannot reasonably agree that the "design" stage is significant. In other words, it's a change that I would make to my own board in 2-5 minutes because the stakes are low. My ballpark guess is that such a change at RPi would have to go through a proposal stage, a PCB change review, and then there would be dozens of places to update documentation. Since backwards compatibility is non-optional, this would result in a separate SKU, which means that the whole distribution chain needs to be updated with a new product. So, I acknowledge that when you're working at their scale any change like this is the definition of non-trivial. What I don't agree with is the conclusion that it's not still clearly the right thing to do.
- javawizard 4mo ago> I’ve never seen a C to Micro. Do they even exist? They do, in spades: https://www.amazon.com/3FT-Micro-Data-Charge-Cable/dp/B0DDWHJNQN https://www.amazon.com/3FT-Micro-Data-Charge-Cable/dp/B0DDWH... I look forward to the day when they're no longer necessary.
- ozim 4mo agoBut then you loose market share to ESP32 where people just get USB C on their own.
- peteforde 4mo agoComparing an RP2350 to the ESP32 family (which is broad) is very much apples to oranges; they each have feature sets which make them ideal for completely different use cases.
- ozim 4mo agoI just got ESP32 C6 on a custom board, with micro python it pretty much made all RPi's obsolete for a quarter of price for I2C, GPIO, UART, SPI communication while having WiFi 6 and BLE. There is no more use case for RPi if I can have ESP32 C6 for $10 - maybe I have to do some soldering on my own. Then if I need a minicomputer I'd rather go with MinisForum PC that is in price range of RPi and if I need I2C or GPIO I can pair it with ESP32 like as many as I want ESP32 instead of single one like RPi. Then communicate over wireless as much as I want with BLE or WiFi.
- peteforde 4mo agoOh yeah? Remind me how many PIO channels does the C6 have? Also, could you confirm that the RP2350 consumes 2-3x less power when idling? If you have the contact details for any certification labs that don't charge extra for radio modules even if you're not using them in your product, that'd be super helpful as well.
- Scene_Cast2 4mo agoI get my USB-C connectors at around $0.08 at low volumes (LCSC).
- imtringued 4mo agohttps://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Same-Sky/UJ20-C-H-G-MSMT-4B-P16-TR?qs=6avfeC6zeS47Lo0obtd7QQ%3D%3D https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Same-Sky/UJ20-C-H-G-MSMT... I'm on a phone that makes it a pain in the ass to switch languages. Do it yourself.
- adolph 4mo agoThere are broadly available third party RP2350 boards with subc and a variety of additional capabilities if that is important for you. https://shop.pimoroni.com/en-us/collections/rp2350 https://shop.pimoroni.com/en-us/collections/rp2350 https://www.sparkfun.com/sparkfun-pro-micro-rp2350.html https://www.sparkfun.com/sparkfun-pro-micro-rp2350.html https://www.dfrobot.com/product-2913.html https://www.dfrobot.com/product-2913.html https://www.seeedstudio.com/Seeed-XIAO-RP2350-p-5944.html https://www.seeedstudio.com/Seeed-XIAO-RP2350-p-5944.html
- peteforde 4mo agoNot the point, though I appreciate folks listing links in an attempt to help. What I am saying is that we're well into 2026 and there's no good reason for RPi not to offer a USB-C version of the reference board for this MCU.
- teamonkey 4mo agoThe good reason is that there are plenty of third party boards that already offer what you want. There’s very little to be gained by an ‘official’ one. The next one probably should have C, if just because it is the Euro standard, but no urgent need to backport.
- peteforde 4mo agoThe point is just blowing past you, friend. I don't need a Pico or any other 3rd party board. I drop SC-1511/12s packages on my PCBs as needed. What I am saying is that the reference board for an RP2350 should have a USB-C port in 2026. It's not aesthetics or even convenience (and it's definitely not price) so much as establishing best practices for how a part should be used. A big part of that is to acknowledge the context in which a part exists, and in this case, it's both a fact and a very good thing that the world has embraced USB-C. It's even being regulated in many cases. I'm not saying that you can't smoke, just that maybe you shouldn't do it when you're volunteering as a Big Brother.
- bschwindHN 4mo ago
- kej 4mo agoFor what it's worth there are third-party rp2350 boards with USB-C connectors if that's important to you. Heck, WaveShare has one with two USB-C connectors: https://www.waveshare.com/rp2350-usb-c.htm https://www.waveshare.com/rp2350-usb-c.htm
- peteforde 4mo agoI am aware, thanks. I do think that you're missing my point, which is that we're significantly past the point in this wretched timeline where they should offer a USB-C version of the reference board for this MCU.
- kej 4mo agoOh, no, I'm with you. The fewer connector types we have to use, the better. My comment was meant as an FYI for you or anyone else who wasn't aware and not as a dismissal of your valid criticism.
- bschwindHN 4mo agoThey probably just bought a shit ton of micro USB connectors back in the day and want to use them up, or something silly like that. It would be funny if the EU forced them to switch to USB-C.
- fragmede 4mo agoI was just needing exactly something that for my project, thank you! This way, I can have my laptop running codex control over a target laptop, by pretending to be a keyboard.
- qiqitori 4mo agoI cannot fathom why USB-C would make any difference. It's not like USB-C is intrinsically better for this use case? If you're doing hardware development, your desk is likely full of in-development crap anyway and a micro USB cable more or less won't make any difference whatsoever, nor is the Pico likely to the only thing needing a micro USB cable. Edit: one thing I can think of where micro USB connectors are better: if you broke off the connector, it's much easier to solder it back on.
- fragmede 4mo ago> If you're doing hardware development, your desk is likely full of in-development crap anyway Sure when you're at home, if you have a stable home. It's one more cable to bring if you don't, or if you ever travel and stay in a hotel.
- peteforde 4mo agoMicro USB is relatively brittle and can only be inserted in one direction. It means you have to make sure you have the old cable for this one thing. There's no USB-PD and you can't do USB host mode. USB-C is the opposite of all those cons: much more durable, not directionally opinionated, you can use one cable for everything, you can do USB host and USB-PD. It's also clearly the future everything is standardizing on. There's value in embracing that, since it is a Reference Board.
- imtringued 4mo agoUSB-C is a better connector in every aspect. Micro USB is a terrible connector. It's that simple. The economics don't add up either, because an adapter cable costs money too.
- peteforde 4mo agoCorrect.
- cmovq 4mo agoThat and a reset button.
- jan_Sate 4mo agoUnpopular opinion but I actually enjoy using USB Micro B more than USB-C. That's because USB-C is much more complicated and there're non-standard-compliant cables floating in the market. USB-C also has some fancy mode like voltage selection. If it got screwed up somehow leading it to supply the wrong voltage, it could fry your Pico board.
- rldjbpin 4mo agoi understand that if they implement a port, it is usually well done (besides the unfortunate 27.1w 5a bs for the rpi5). so unlike cheapo electronics that do come with barely working type c. however, while in one hand we are happy to (albeit temporarily) raise prices based on ram situation, in terms of design, there is simply not enough money for the port. especially when now they are adding ecosystem items that do cost money to develop and maintain. this explanation made sense pre-ipo but no longer imho.
- imtringued 4mo agoIt's not $0.50 extra. It's $0.16 extra for a USB-C port assuming you bought the USB-C port on mouser at 10k quantities and threw the micro USB port away. I just don't get it. Anyone who wants to save a few pennies just buys the chip directly. Their Pico board is primarily for prototyping and one off products, where quality of life is everything and 16 cents is nothing. The adapter cable probably costs more than the amount they saved. That's a dick move.
- asddubs 4mo agoYou can at least buy USB-C boards from other vendors since they sell the rp2040/rp2350 separately. If you want wifi it gets a little more complicated unfortunately.