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"Users will find Opus 4.8 to be a modest but tangible improvement on its predecessor." This is a refreshing attitude! I've also verified that you can now turn

"Users will find Opus 4.8 to be a modest but tangible improvement on its predecessor." This is a refreshing attitude! I've also verified that you can now turn off adaptive thinking in the web UI, which is great. I've had a lot of problems with thinking not triggering and the model producing sub-par output. Glad we can finally turn it off. (I hope being able to turn off adaptive thinking is new, if I could have turned it off at any time that would be embarrassing)

jascha_eng 4mo ago
The benchmark improvements actually look pretty damn nice tho!
winwang 4mo ago
Awesome, thanks for posting because I think I hit a possibly-spurious bug in turning Adaptive off when I switched models (4.6 -> 4.8, extra). Tried again, works as intended (I hope). More importantly for me, though, is how CC will respond to 4.6-"only" flags for thinking. For now, it doesn't seem to clobber my setup.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
wahnfrieden 4mo ago
What's refreshing about it given the context that 4.7 was a regression in many ways (including as measured by benchmarks)? 4.8 is also 2x more expensive for a "modest" performance bump. How refreshing. This is just cope.
- cootsnuck 4mo ago
  > 4.8 is also 2x more expensive for a "modest" performance bump. How refreshing. Where are you seeing it's 2x more expensive? https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/pricing https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/pricing
  - wahnfrieden 4mo ago
    Don’t measure model cost by token price. Measure based on tokens used to achieve a task. Others report in this thread that it’s about 2x more expensive due to outputs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48312774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48312774
- murkt 4mo ago
  Price hasn’t changes at all, though.
  - wahnfrieden 4mo ago
    Token price doesn't mean much and is also manipulated to show false affordability. Look at price per task.
FergusArgyll 4mo ago
I liked the "modest but tangible improvement" too! There is a cynical take here but I think I'm gonna hold it in...
smartmic 4mo ago
> This is a refreshing attitude! Well, I think the attitude is that costs are allowed to escalate faster and more steeply than the features delivered. From that perspective, semantic versioning is a handy tool for adjusting pricing strategies. IMHO, it (versioning) only makes sense for open-source projects, where you can clearly see the actual changes made with each version upgrade. Anything else is more than a little suspicious…
- drewnick 4mo ago
  While all these models are nondeterministic a feature bump is still necessary as the same input can have wildly different output on a new model. For API users being able to pin a model is a necessity.
- zaptheimpaler 4mo ago
  All the 4.x models are still available, and they all cost the same.
  - ambicapter 4mo ago
    > Opus 4.7 and later use a new tokenizer compared to previous models, contributing to their improved performance on a wide range of tasks. This new tokenizer may use up to 35% more tokens for the same fixed text. Same cost/token, more token usage.
- smsx 4mo ago
  The 4.8 model costs the same as it's 4.7 predecessor.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
ai_slop_hater 4mo ago
What do you mean? This is not just a new model, this is a new way of thinking.
gibspaulding 4mo ago
I’m pretty sure that switch has always been there, but turning it off doesn’t do what you want. It disables thinking entirely.
- kakugawa 4mo ago
  Opus 4.7 does not support disabling adaptive thinking (web, Claude Code). [1] Like the OP, I experienced similar issues and I'm glad that they brought back the ability to disable adaptive thinking in Opus 4.8. [1] https://code.claude.com/docs/en/model-config#adaptive-reasoning-and-fixed-thinking-budgets https://code.claude.com/docs/en/model-config#adaptive-reason... > Opus 4.7 and later always use adaptive reasoning. The fixed thinking budget mode and `CLAUDE_CODE_DISABLE_ADAPTIVE_THINKING` do not apply to them.
  - BoorishBears 4mo ago
    > Opus 4.7 and later The source of truth should be the API docs which make it clear 4.8 didn't bring back extended thinking: https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/models/overview https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/models/over... Any UI settings probably just map to changing the effort nudge on adaptive thinking
    - kakugawa 4mo ago
      Thank you for pointing this out.
    - reed1234 4mo ago
      https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/effort#effort-levels https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/effort...
      - BoorishBears 4mo ago
        Adaptive thinking supports effort, but it's a nudge instead of an actual token budget. Why not use the pages that plainly state they don't support extended thinking: https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/extended-thinking https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/extend...
comboy 4mo ago
"We've cut our costs A LOT"
elSidCampeador 4mo ago
Are they doing these smaller releases to attune users to a more incremental cycle of updates? Like, yeah other model providers do these major updates every x months, we on the other hand do incremental updates every x/2 months
ddp26 4mo ago
It is refreshing but perhaps actually not warranted this time? I mostly study web research, and Opus 4.7 was a regression on BrowseComp compared to Opus 4.6, which has been born out by my usage. Opus 4.8 is now much better than either 4.7 or 4.6, and having it search the web is one of the primary use cases of chatbots.
mkozlows 4mo ago
I was hoping that the web UI would be better -- I like Anthropic better than OpenAI from a values perspective and want to use their products, but ChatGPT in thinking mode has been just vastly better than claude.ai.So my fingers were crossed that these changes would bring it up to par. But trying it out... alas, no. Simple factual questions where ChatGPT would go do a quick search and get the facts and report them back to me, get a "Great question! [totally invented bullshit]" from Claude, even with this new model and thinking set to high. I have to explicitly tell it to search to get it to look up basic facts, rather than it recognizing that it needs to do that, like GPT does.
- Paracompact 4mo ago
  What are some examples?
empath75 4mo ago
I was working with opus 4.7 on a math formalization problem for several days and 4.8 one-shotted the proof from a clean description as soon as the update came through. I was very surprised.
casey2 4mo ago
You act like they weren't fearmongering about Mythos literally 2 months ago. Do you think everyone is stupid, we know exactly what you are doing. Please.
arnorhs 4mo ago
Yes, modest but tangible improvement - same modesty does not apply to the cost: https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/capabilities/coding#coding-index-cost-breakdown https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/capabilities/coding#cod...
- Npovview 4mo ago
  Originally Indians didn't drink tea. British East India company got Indians addicted to tea/chai when they sold it for free. Then the real prices came in.

jascha_eng 4mo ago

The benchmark improvements actually look pretty damn nice tho!

winwang 4mo ago

Awesome, thanks for posting because I think I hit a possibly-spurious bug in turning Adaptive off when I switched models (4.6 -> 4.8, extra). Tried again, works as intended (I hope). More importantly for me, though, is how CC will respond to 4.6-"only" flags for thinking. For now, it doesn't seem to clobber my setup.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

wahnfrieden 4mo ago

What's refreshing about it given the context that 4.7 was a regression in many ways (including as measured by benchmarks)? 4.8 is also 2x more expensive for a "modest" performance bump. How refreshing. This is just cope.

cootsnuck 4mo ago
> 4.8 is also 2x more expensive for a "modest" performance bump. How refreshing. Where are you seeing it's 2x more expensive? https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/pricing https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/pricing
- wahnfrieden 4mo ago
  Don’t measure model cost by token price. Measure based on tokens used to achieve a task. Others report in this thread that it’s about 2x more expensive due to outputs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48312774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48312774
murkt 4mo ago
Price hasn’t changes at all, though.
- wahnfrieden 4mo ago
  Token price doesn't mean much and is also manipulated to show false affordability. Look at price per task.

FergusArgyll 4mo ago

I liked the "modest but tangible improvement" too! There is a cynical take here but I think I'm gonna hold it in...

smartmic 4mo ago

> This is a refreshing attitude! Well, I think the attitude is that costs are allowed to escalate faster and more steeply than the features delivered. From that perspective, semantic versioning is a handy tool for adjusting pricing strategies. IMHO, it (versioning) only makes sense for open-source projects, where you can clearly see the actual changes made with each version upgrade. Anything else is more than a little suspicious…

drewnick 4mo ago
While all these models are nondeterministic a feature bump is still necessary as the same input can have wildly different output on a new model. For API users being able to pin a model is a necessity.
zaptheimpaler 4mo ago
All the 4.x models are still available, and they all cost the same.
- ambicapter 4mo ago
  > Opus 4.7 and later use a new tokenizer compared to previous models, contributing to their improved performance on a wide range of tasks. This new tokenizer may use up to 35% more tokens for the same fixed text. Same cost/token, more token usage.
smsx 4mo ago
The 4.8 model costs the same as it's 4.7 predecessor.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]

ai_slop_hater 4mo ago

What do you mean? This is not just a new model, this is a new way of thinking.

gibspaulding 4mo ago

I’m pretty sure that switch has always been there, but turning it off doesn’t do what you want. It disables thinking entirely.

kakugawa 4mo ago
Opus 4.7 does not support disabling adaptive thinking (web, Claude Code). [1] Like the OP, I experienced similar issues and I'm glad that they brought back the ability to disable adaptive thinking in Opus 4.8. [1] https://code.claude.com/docs/en/model-config#adaptive-reasoning-and-fixed-thinking-budgets https://code.claude.com/docs/en/model-config#adaptive-reason... > Opus 4.7 and later always use adaptive reasoning. The fixed thinking budget mode and `CLAUDE_CODE_DISABLE_ADAPTIVE_THINKING` do not apply to them.
- BoorishBears 4mo ago
  > Opus 4.7 and later The source of truth should be the API docs which make it clear 4.8 didn't bring back extended thinking: https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/models/overview https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/about-claude/models/over... Any UI settings probably just map to changing the effort nudge on adaptive thinking
  - kakugawa 4mo ago
    Thank you for pointing this out.
  - reed1234 4mo ago
    https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/effort#effort-levels https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/effort...
    - BoorishBears 4mo ago
      Adaptive thinking supports effort, but it's a nudge instead of an actual token budget. Why not use the pages that plainly state they don't support extended thinking: https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/extended-thinking https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/extend...

comboy 4mo ago

"We've cut our costs A LOT"

elSidCampeador 4mo ago

Are they doing these smaller releases to attune users to a more incremental cycle of updates? Like, yeah other model providers do these major updates every x months, we on the other hand do incremental updates every x/2 months

ddp26 4mo ago

It is refreshing but perhaps actually not warranted this time? I mostly study web research, and Opus 4.7 was a regression on BrowseComp compared to Opus 4.6, which has been born out by my usage. Opus 4.8 is now much better than either 4.7 or 4.6, and having it search the web is one of the primary use cases of chatbots.

mkozlows 4mo ago

I was hoping that the web UI would be better -- I like Anthropic better than OpenAI from a values perspective and want to use their products, but ChatGPT in thinking mode has been just vastly better than claude.ai.So my fingers were crossed that these changes would bring it up to par. But trying it out... alas, no. Simple factual questions where ChatGPT would go do a quick search and get the facts and report them back to me, get a "Great question! [totally invented bullshit]" from Claude, even with this new model and thinking set to high. I have to explicitly tell it to search to get it to look up basic facts, rather than it recognizing that it needs to do that, like GPT does.

Paracompact 4mo ago
What are some examples?

empath75 4mo ago

I was working with opus 4.7 on a math formalization problem for several days and 4.8 one-shotted the proof from a clean description as soon as the update came through. I was very surprised.

casey2 4mo ago

You act like they weren't fearmongering about Mythos literally 2 months ago. Do you think everyone is stupid, we know exactly what you are doing. Please.

arnorhs 4mo ago

Yes, modest but tangible improvement - same modesty does not apply to the cost: https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/capabilities/coding#coding-index-cost-breakdown https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/capabilities/coding#cod...

Npovview 4mo ago
Originally Indians didn't drink tea. British East India company got Indians addicted to tea/chai when they sold it for free. Then the real prices came in.