4 ms·

I am thinking why not use the iPad simply as a letter pad with infinite pages? the new iPad with the new iPad pencil can do that and I am sure with the right

by collabs 4mo ago

I am thinking why not use the iPad simply as a letter pad with infinite pages? the new iPad with the new iPad pencil can do that and I am sure with the right software you can write, erase, rewrite as much as you want? What am I missing?

kleiba2 4mo ago
That's being done, but it would not be sufficient to satisfy the powers that be.
irishcoffee 4mo ago
You can just use a pencil and paper, and it's a lot cheaper?
- ptek 4mo ago
  Yes it is cheaper and who will steal or rob a student of pencil and paper compared to a iPad also pencil and paper doesn’t require age verification.
  - throwway120385 4mo ago
    It's also probably good to make sure students know how to figure using a pencil and paper because pulling a calculator out on a job site is pretty impractical.
    - tracker1 4mo ago
      Not sure I agree with that last point... you probably have one in your pocket already (phone app). Though I'm strongly against electronic devices as core education materials in K-6 especially.
bigstrat2003 4mo ago
The point is that it's foolish to require inserting an iPad into the classroom purely for the sake of using an iPad. The goal (or proposed benefit) should be identified first, and then decide what the best tools to achieve that are.
- Danox 4mo ago
  Those students that have the discipline and have an iPad and can use Goodnotes or Notability they are just gonna be ahead of the rest, like typing the earlier you learn the better off you’re going to be, and there are no shortcuts if you are a student.
snazz 4mo ago
No matter how you restrict it with MDM profiles, it’s distracting compared to pencil/paper.
- layer8 4mo ago
  Can’t it run restricted to a single application in kiosk mode? Unless the application itself provides distraction, what would be distracting?
  - sparqlittlestar 4mo ago
    The very light it emits, the liquid glass lensing animations, etc
    - econ 4mo ago
      I recall some research in the TV age. They observed, if the subject is looking into a light source, (be it a camp fire, a screen or a bulb) they go into a kind of sleepwalking mode. They also mentioned the phenomenon was already well documented by hypnotists. In the early internet days I couldn't help but notice people who read zero books now spend the whole day reading. I think it means the tool is used the wrong way? Interactive should be e-paper or real paper. Dull cramming or basic reading skills would be a good fit for glowing displays. Perhaps we even need a device that can do both.
      - tracker1 4mo ago
        You also don't get the physicality as part of recall with eInk over real books. When reading technical books, as an example, I often would look back when going to review something based on where it was physically in the book... I completely lose that with ebooks.. I still mostly use ebooks and online docs these days all the same because moving hundreds of pounds of books when you move sucks.
    - layer8 4mo ago
      At least with OLED, the light output can be auto-adjusted to match the reflecting light of the environment. This can be quite convincing, looking like a purely reflective surface. And a dedicated app doesn’t need to use any distracting animations or highlights.
ncr100 4mo ago
Human biology likely makes it harder to write on a glass screen with a perceptible Gap in time, latency between where the pen is and where the pixels appear as well as the physical colocation Of the pencil tip and the written line differs more so on a tablet screen than on direct application of matter to paper. This confuses us, a little tiny teeny tidbit. And that is not helpful! Plus because glass is slippery you must rely on your visual system nearly entirely for part of the handwriting performance. Because it's not paper you can't measure distances using tension that your nervous system picks up inside your hand, nearly as easily as you can when there's a high friction surface like a piece of paper to rest your hand on. Also there is visual fatigue of staring into a light, the LED or OLED backlight, which does flicker imperceptibly but it does tend to flicker. This is more of a strain. Plus there is disorientation... Your tablet can infinitely scroll long past the point at which your body physically dies, whereas if you run out of paper you got to go get some more paper. You write to the end of a sheet and there's no complex thinking involved around virtual viewframes and scrolling and using the scrolling UI.
- stonogo 4mo ago
  That isn't a matter of human biology. You learned to expect a specific experience when you took pencil to paper at a young age. Other people can learn to expect different experiences. Your acquired habits are not a genetic imperative. All of this post seems like ex post facto justifications for an implicit claim that the tech you grew up with is natural and good and the tech that came later is somehow inimical to life.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
nathan_compton 4mo ago
For awhile I tried all sorts of digital notetaking devices. Eventually I realized that pen + paper notebook was vastly superior to all of them for retention, ease of use, and cost. I am sure that, for some people, the calculation is different (for example, I have a pretty good memory and thus writing something down once is sufficient for me to recall it later) but for me, the idea of a digital letter pad eventually seemed utterly wasteful and absurd to me.

by collabs 4mo ago

kleiba2 4mo ago

That's being done, but it would not be sufficient to satisfy the powers that be.

irishcoffee 4mo ago

You can just use a pencil and paper, and it's a lot cheaper?

ptek 4mo ago
Yes it is cheaper and who will steal or rob a student of pencil and paper compared to a iPad also pencil and paper doesn’t require age verification.
- throwway120385 4mo ago
  It's also probably good to make sure students know how to figure using a pencil and paper because pulling a calculator out on a job site is pretty impractical.
  - tracker1 4mo ago
    Not sure I agree with that last point... you probably have one in your pocket already (phone app). Though I'm strongly against electronic devices as core education materials in K-6 especially.

bigstrat2003 4mo ago

The point is that it's foolish to require inserting an iPad into the classroom purely for the sake of using an iPad. The goal (or proposed benefit) should be identified first, and then decide what the best tools to achieve that are.

Danox 4mo ago
Those students that have the discipline and have an iPad and can use Goodnotes or Notability they are just gonna be ahead of the rest, like typing the earlier you learn the better off you’re going to be, and there are no shortcuts if you are a student.

snazz 4mo ago

No matter how you restrict it with MDM profiles, it’s distracting compared to pencil/paper.

layer8 4mo ago
Can’t it run restricted to a single application in kiosk mode? Unless the application itself provides distraction, what would be distracting?
- sparqlittlestar 4mo ago
  The very light it emits, the liquid glass lensing animations, etc
  - econ 4mo ago
    I recall some research in the TV age. They observed, if the subject is looking into a light source, (be it a camp fire, a screen or a bulb) they go into a kind of sleepwalking mode. They also mentioned the phenomenon was already well documented by hypnotists. In the early internet days I couldn't help but notice people who read zero books now spend the whole day reading. I think it means the tool is used the wrong way? Interactive should be e-paper or real paper. Dull cramming or basic reading skills would be a good fit for glowing displays. Perhaps we even need a device that can do both.
    - tracker1 4mo ago
      You also don't get the physicality as part of recall with eInk over real books. When reading technical books, as an example, I often would look back when going to review something based on where it was physically in the book... I completely lose that with ebooks.. I still mostly use ebooks and online docs these days all the same because moving hundreds of pounds of books when you move sucks.
  - layer8 4mo ago
    At least with OLED, the light output can be auto-adjusted to match the reflecting light of the environment. This can be quite convincing, looking like a purely reflective surface. And a dedicated app doesn’t need to use any distracting animations or highlights.

ncr100 4mo ago

Human biology likely makes it harder to write on a glass screen with a perceptible Gap in time, latency between where the pen is and where the pixels appear as well as the physical colocation Of the pencil tip and the written line differs more so on a tablet screen than on direct application of matter to paper. This confuses us, a little tiny teeny tidbit. And that is not helpful! Plus because glass is slippery you must rely on your visual system nearly entirely for part of the handwriting performance. Because it's not paper you can't measure distances using tension that your nervous system picks up inside your hand, nearly as easily as you can when there's a high friction surface like a piece of paper to rest your hand on. Also there is visual fatigue of staring into a light, the LED or OLED backlight, which does flicker imperceptibly but it does tend to flicker. This is more of a strain. Plus there is disorientation... Your tablet can infinitely scroll long past the point at which your body physically dies, whereas if you run out of paper you got to go get some more paper. You write to the end of a sheet and there's no complex thinking involved around virtual viewframes and scrolling and using the scrolling UI.

stonogo 4mo ago
That isn't a matter of human biology. You learned to expect a specific experience when you took pencil to paper at a young age. Other people can learn to expect different experiences. Your acquired habits are not a genetic imperative. All of this post seems like ex post facto justifications for an implicit claim that the tech you grew up with is natural and good and the tech that came later is somehow inimical to life.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

nathan_compton 4mo ago

For awhile I tried all sorts of digital notetaking devices. Eventually I realized that pen + paper notebook was vastly superior to all of them for retention, ease of use, and cost. I am sure that, for some people, the calculation is different (for example, I have a pretty good memory and thus writing something down once is sufficient for me to recall it later) but for me, the idea of a digital letter pad eventually seemed utterly wasteful and absurd to me.