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I mean, you see smart people all over the world talking to imaginary, supernatural, all powerfull beings asking for favors via prayers, like that would have any
by lab14 4mo ago
I mean, you see smart people all over the world talking to imaginary, supernatural, all powerfull beings asking for favors via prayers, like that would have any effect on their lives.
- paulryanrogers 4mo agoGuessing the downvotes are because you said 'imaginary' about things folks consider very personal and are mostly unfalsifiable.
- Filligree 4mo agoI feel like that says more about them. Feeling good about the existence of something, or bad about its absence, does not count as evidence.
- irishcoffee 4mo ago> Feeling good about the existence of something, or bad about its absence, does not count as evidence. Isn't the inverse also true?
- Filligree 4mo agoSure, but nonexistence is the default. Has to be the default; most possible things do not exist. In this case we have no evidence for, so we stay with the default.
- irishcoffee 4mo agoYou're making the "if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it" pontification? If so, I disagree with you.
- paulryanrogers 4mo agoAre they? And anyway, plenty of trees have been observed falling in the forest, and gravity in general. Not so many repeatable observations about divine beings, healing, etc. Absence of evidence isn't proof of existence. Ultimately it's all about probabilities based what is known. Unlikely there is a blue teacup within Saturn's rings or a flying spaghetti monster.
- Hikikomori 4mo agoI'd say there's a lot less evidence of god than a tree falling in the forest that nobody was there to see.
- tejohnso 4mo agoI get your point, but prayer can be akin visualization and practiced focus, which can indeed have an effect on one's life. Then there's the type of prayer where you straight up beg for things from FSM for five seconds and move on with your day. Probably less helpful, that.
- lab14 4mo agoi'm OK with meditation, as it doesn't require believing in superatural, all powerful beings
- ecshafer 4mo agoHere comes the /r/atheism level hot takes. In this moment, I feel euphoric.
- randusername 4mo ago> like that would have any effect on their lives Prayer is more than begging favors from imaginary friends, even if that is the stereotype and there is some truth in it. Like meditation, journaling, and other contemplative practices, it is a mechanism for putting the day-to-day in proper context of some larger narrative. In a theological framework, then, it's about a narrative in which you aren't alone in your joys and sorrows. I don't think intelligence and spiritual practice are mutually exclusive. I think you can be repulsed by the dogma, indoctrination, and irrationality but also recognize that there might be something redeemable in such popular frameworks for finding meaning and purpose in existence.
- WhitneyLand 4mo ago“Like meditation, journaling, and other contemplative practices” The big difference is that meditation and journaling do not require a belief that you are communicating with supernatural beings. “I don't think intelligence and spiritual practice are mutually exclusive.” That’s a low bar. At the least we know supernatural/religious beliefs are negatively correlated with scientific training and scientific eminence.
- alphawhisky 4mo agoI think most people would argue that's just being a moral person. Jesus was a humanist, after all. I find that these days, the folks looking for community won't really build for others, and the folks looking to build for others are extremely hesitant to join a community. You tell me why and which group are better Christians.
- aj_hackman 4mo agoAs outlined in John 1:1, Jesus is in fact God himself, and God is something far greater and more magnificent than a humanist. The message of the Bible is a total inversion of humanism, teaching us to believe in God alone rather than ourselves for deliverance from the necessary and ultimately temporary problems of evil and suffering. It's full of stories of human beings attempting to fix things on their own and failing spectacularly (which is ironic given the history of the church).
- jack_pp 4mo agoNewton believed in God, ask an LLM what famous scientists believed in God, take a step back and ask if you think you are smarter than those people.
- throwaway173738 4mo agoJust as OP’s derision isn’t a reason for disbelief, “smart people” expressing belief isn’t a reason to believe.
- jack_pp 4mo agoIt should at least be a reason to not be snarky about the subject.
- dingdingdang 4mo agoYes, it worth aiming for common sense as a bare minimum, chaos and entropy only grows when things we don't understand are casually derided/attacked.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- NuclearPM 4mo agoIt made more sense to believe this stuff back in the 1600s.
- mullingitover 4mo agoIt also made sense to say you believed in God, because if you did anything else people would do things like burning you alive. Even now, although it’s not usually as violent religion is frequently very coercive.
- stickfigure 4mo agoNewton spent more of his life working on alchemy than math or physics. Shall we all start searching for the Philosopher's Stone? Why not?
- vladms 4mo agoIn medicine, placebo was proven to have a positive effect. Maybe we will learn about similar effects about other things. Now, if only we would convince everybody that those supernatural beings don't work through representatives that everybody must listen, that would already be an improvement!
- prewett 4mo agoWhy wouldn't supernatural beings work through representatives? For one thing, they are presumably only going to work through people that are committed to their (the beings') agenda. And why would supernatural beings necessarily be populist? Until the Christian revolution, the dominant thought was that the supernatural beings were elitist; all of the heroes in Greek mythology were nobility of some form.
- IAmBroom 4mo agoA myriad Christian monarchies have believed in Divine Right. The Christian revolution had no effect on this idea.