5 ms·

> Obvious plant nobody would be that stupid to store the valuables at home within the first six months after the „acquisition“. Whenever you say "nobody would

> Obvious plant nobody would be that stupid to store the valuables at home within the first six months after the „acquisition“. Whenever you say "nobody would be that stupid" you have to pause and take a deep breath and realise that however dumb something is, there are for sure people who are stupid enough to do it. Example 1 from personal experience: I was at my aunt's house and she had to rush a friend's husband to get medical help because he had drilled a hole in his own stomach with a hand drill while trying to put up a bookshelf. The friend had been reading a book on medieval medicine so (rather than rushing her husband immediately to hospital) decided to try a medieval remedy on him so fed him some soup to see whether (in line with the medieval diagnostic routine) she could smell it after he had eaten it. She could indeed, because it dribbled out of the hole he had drilled in his stomach. Now. You might reasonably say: "Noone would be so dumb as to drill a hole in their own stomach" or indeed "noone would be so dumb as to see a loved one who had drilled a hole in themselves and decide to feed them soup" but I can tell you from direct personal experience there are people dumb enough to do this. Example 2 from personal experience[1]: A friend of my dad who was a highly capable chemical engineer and generally very practical guy (eg he made a motorcycle for his kids to play on using salvaged parts including a lawnmower engine and a frame he welded together himself) was a hobby parachutist. He broke his spine because he decided to modify his parachute himself on his wife's sewing machine in spite of having no previous sewing experience. However dumb something is, there are people dumb enough to do it and even otherwise smart people have blind spots that make them incredibly dumb under the right circumstances. [1] Just in case you think smart people can't do incredibly dumb things.

lab14 5mo ago
I mean, you see smart people all over the world talking to imaginary, supernatural, all powerfull beings asking for favors via prayers, like that would have any effect on their lives.
- paulryanrogers 5mo ago
  Guessing the downvotes are because you said 'imaginary' about things folks consider very personal and are mostly unfalsifiable.
  - Filligree 5mo ago
    I feel like that says more about them. Feeling good about the existence of something, or bad about its absence, does not count as evidence.
    - irishcoffee 5mo ago
      > Feeling good about the existence of something, or bad about its absence, does not count as evidence. Isn't the inverse also true?
      - Filligree 5mo ago
        Sure, but nonexistence is the default. Has to be the default; most possible things do not exist. In this case we have no evidence for, so we stay with the default.
        irishcoffee 5mo ago
        You're making the "if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it" pontification? If so, I disagree with you.
        paulryanrogers 5mo ago
        Are they? And anyway, plenty of trees have been observed falling in the forest, and gravity in general. Not so many repeatable observations about divine beings, healing, etc. Absence of evidence isn't proof of existence. Ultimately it's all about probabilities based what is known. Unlikely there is a blue teacup within Saturn's rings or a flying spaghetti monster.
        Hikikomori 5mo ago
        I'd say there's a lot less evidence of god than a tree falling in the forest that nobody was there to see.
- tejohnso 5mo ago
  I get your point, but prayer can be akin visualization and practiced focus, which can indeed have an effect on one's life. Then there's the type of prayer where you straight up beg for things from FSM for five seconds and move on with your day. Probably less helpful, that.
  - lab14 5mo ago
    i'm OK with meditation, as it doesn't require believing in superatural, all powerful beings
- ecshafer 5mo ago
  Here comes the /r/atheism level hot takes. In this moment, I feel euphoric.
- randusername 5mo ago
  > like that would have any effect on their lives Prayer is more than begging favors from imaginary friends, even if that is the stereotype and there is some truth in it. Like meditation, journaling, and other contemplative practices, it is a mechanism for putting the day-to-day in proper context of some larger narrative. In a theological framework, then, it's about a narrative in which you aren't alone in your joys and sorrows. I don't think intelligence and spiritual practice are mutually exclusive. I think you can be repulsed by the dogma, indoctrination, and irrationality but also recognize that there might be something redeemable in such popular frameworks for finding meaning and purpose in existence.
  - WhitneyLand 5mo ago
    “Like meditation, journaling, and other contemplative practices” The big difference is that meditation and journaling do not require a belief that you are communicating with supernatural beings. “I don't think intelligence and spiritual practice are mutually exclusive.” That’s a low bar. At the least we know supernatural/religious beliefs are negatively correlated with scientific training and scientific eminence.
  - alphawhisky 5mo ago
    I think most people would argue that's just being a moral person. Jesus was a humanist, after all. I find that these days, the folks looking for community won't really build for others, and the folks looking to build for others are extremely hesitant to join a community. You tell me why and which group are better Christians.
    - aj_hackman 5mo ago
      As outlined in John 1:1, Jesus is in fact God himself, and God is something far greater and more magnificent than a humanist. The message of the Bible is a total inversion of humanism, teaching us to believe in God alone rather than ourselves for deliverance from the necessary and ultimately temporary problems of evil and suffering. It's full of stories of human beings attempting to fix things on their own and failing spectacularly (which is ironic given the history of the church).
- jack_pp 5mo ago
  Newton believed in God, ask an LLM what famous scientists believed in God, take a step back and ask if you think you are smarter than those people.
  - throwaway173738 5mo ago
    Just as OP’s derision isn’t a reason for disbelief, “smart people” expressing belief isn’t a reason to believe.
    - jack_pp 5mo ago
      It should at least be a reason to not be snarky about the subject.
      - dingdingdang 5mo ago
        Yes, it worth aiming for common sense as a bare minimum, chaos and entropy only grows when things we don't understand are casually derided/attacked.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - NuclearPM 5mo ago
    It made more sense to believe this stuff back in the 1600s.
    - mullingitover 5mo ago
      It also made sense to say you believed in God, because if you did anything else people would do things like burning you alive. Even now, although it’s not usually as violent religion is frequently very coercive.
  - stickfigure 5mo ago
    Newton spent more of his life working on alchemy than math or physics. Shall we all start searching for the Philosopher's Stone? Why not?
- vladms 5mo ago
  In medicine, placebo was proven to have a positive effect. Maybe we will learn about similar effects about other things. Now, if only we would convince everybody that those supernatural beings don't work through representatives that everybody must listen, that would already be an improvement!
  - prewett 5mo ago
    Why wouldn't supernatural beings work through representatives? For one thing, they are presumably only going to work through people that are committed to their (the beings') agenda. And why would supernatural beings necessarily be populist? Until the Christian revolution, the dominant thought was that the supernatural beings were elitist; all of the heroes in Greek mythology were nobility of some form.
    - IAmBroom 5mo ago
      A myriad Christian monarchies have believed in Divine Right. The Christian revolution had no effect on this idea.
Tangurena2 5mo ago
> Whenever you say "nobody would be that stupid" you have to pause and take a deep breath and realise that however dumb something is, there are for sure people who are stupid enough to do it. Long ago, I graduated from a police academy. One of the things taught was that crooks, while clever at finding ways to make money, are rather unclever ("stupid" if you will) at performing that task. Which is why so many are caught. The smart engineer who over-estimated his ability with sewing is a tragic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I'm reminded of the Dunning Kruger paper [0]: > In 1995, McArthur Wheeler walked into two Pittsburgh banks and robbed them in broad daylight, with no visible attempt at disguise. He was arrested later that night, less than an hour after videotapes of him taken from surveillance cameras were broadcast on the 11 o'clock news. When police later showed him the surveillance tapes, Mr. Wheeler stared in incredulity. "But I wore the juice," he mumbled. Apparently, Mr. Wheeler was under the impression that rubbing one's face with lemon juice rendered it invisible to videotape cameras. Links: 0 - that paper itself: https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/sasi/wp-content/uploads/sites/275/2015/11/krugerdunning99.pdf https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/sasi/wp-content/uploads/sites/27...
- bitmasher9 5mo ago
  I think we often underestimate the intelligence of the criminal population for two main reasons. 1. The dumbest ones are most likely to be caught and have their stories told. 2. Law Enforcement often gets frustrated at chasing the smarter ones and use illegal methods catching them and the real story doesn’t come out in court.
  - jermaustin1 5mo ago
    > the real story doesn’t come out in court. I'm not saying this hasn't happened, but any competent criminal defense attorney (like a SMART criminal would have) would go to town on illegally obtained evidence. I'm not saying cops don't do warrantless searches/taps/etc., to gather unofficial clues, but if they can't get real evidence that stands up under scrutiny, the criminal walks. I'm not sure if prosecution would move forward on such shaky ground in hard to prove cases.
ericyd 5mo ago
The first story could literally be a sketch on a comedy show, thanks for the laugh
- dieselgate 5mo ago
  Reminds me of safety trainings where they show machine-shop accidents or people nailing themselves with an air-gun. It happens more than we think and is gruesome. Just a couple months ago saw a Dewalt framing nailer recall posted at home depot for accidental discharges without the trigger being held. Not the same as drilling into your stomach - and I see a black comedy element - but can't help but wince and cringe at the thought of it all and it's not genuinely funny to me.
  - ericyd 5mo ago
    The drilling into oneself is not funny. The feeding an obviously seriously injured person soup to deduce the severity of their illness is funny as hell to me
nojs 5mo ago
that was a fantastic story, thanks

lab14 5mo ago

I mean, you see smart people all over the world talking to imaginary, supernatural, all powerfull beings asking for favors via prayers, like that would have any effect on their lives.

paulryanrogers 5mo ago
Guessing the downvotes are because you said 'imaginary' about things folks consider very personal and are mostly unfalsifiable.
- Filligree 5mo ago
  I feel like that says more about them. Feeling good about the existence of something, or bad about its absence, does not count as evidence.
  - irishcoffee 5mo ago
    > Feeling good about the existence of something, or bad about its absence, does not count as evidence. Isn't the inverse also true?
    - Filligree 5mo ago
      Sure, but nonexistence is the default. Has to be the default; most possible things do not exist. In this case we have no evidence for, so we stay with the default.
      - irishcoffee 5mo ago
        You're making the "if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it" pontification? If so, I disagree with you.
        paulryanrogers 5mo ago
        Are they? And anyway, plenty of trees have been observed falling in the forest, and gravity in general. Not so many repeatable observations about divine beings, healing, etc. Absence of evidence isn't proof of existence. Ultimately it's all about probabilities based what is known. Unlikely there is a blue teacup within Saturn's rings or a flying spaghetti monster.
        Hikikomori 5mo ago
        I'd say there's a lot less evidence of god than a tree falling in the forest that nobody was there to see.
tejohnso 5mo ago
I get your point, but prayer can be akin visualization and practiced focus, which can indeed have an effect on one's life. Then there's the type of prayer where you straight up beg for things from FSM for five seconds and move on with your day. Probably less helpful, that.
- lab14 5mo ago
  i'm OK with meditation, as it doesn't require believing in superatural, all powerful beings
ecshafer 5mo ago
Here comes the /r/atheism level hot takes. In this moment, I feel euphoric.
randusername 5mo ago
> like that would have any effect on their lives Prayer is more than begging favors from imaginary friends, even if that is the stereotype and there is some truth in it. Like meditation, journaling, and other contemplative practices, it is a mechanism for putting the day-to-day in proper context of some larger narrative. In a theological framework, then, it's about a narrative in which you aren't alone in your joys and sorrows. I don't think intelligence and spiritual practice are mutually exclusive. I think you can be repulsed by the dogma, indoctrination, and irrationality but also recognize that there might be something redeemable in such popular frameworks for finding meaning and purpose in existence.
- WhitneyLand 5mo ago
  “Like meditation, journaling, and other contemplative practices” The big difference is that meditation and journaling do not require a belief that you are communicating with supernatural beings. “I don't think intelligence and spiritual practice are mutually exclusive.” That’s a low bar. At the least we know supernatural/religious beliefs are negatively correlated with scientific training and scientific eminence.
- alphawhisky 5mo ago
  I think most people would argue that's just being a moral person. Jesus was a humanist, after all. I find that these days, the folks looking for community won't really build for others, and the folks looking to build for others are extremely hesitant to join a community. You tell me why and which group are better Christians.
  - aj_hackman 5mo ago
    As outlined in John 1:1, Jesus is in fact God himself, and God is something far greater and more magnificent than a humanist. The message of the Bible is a total inversion of humanism, teaching us to believe in God alone rather than ourselves for deliverance from the necessary and ultimately temporary problems of evil and suffering. It's full of stories of human beings attempting to fix things on their own and failing spectacularly (which is ironic given the history of the church).
jack_pp 5mo ago
Newton believed in God, ask an LLM what famous scientists believed in God, take a step back and ask if you think you are smarter than those people.
- throwaway173738 5mo ago
  Just as OP’s derision isn’t a reason for disbelief, “smart people” expressing belief isn’t a reason to believe.
  - jack_pp 5mo ago
    It should at least be a reason to not be snarky about the subject.
    - dingdingdang 5mo ago
      Yes, it worth aiming for common sense as a bare minimum, chaos and entropy only grows when things we don't understand are casually derided/attacked.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- NuclearPM 5mo ago
  It made more sense to believe this stuff back in the 1600s.
  - mullingitover 5mo ago
    It also made sense to say you believed in God, because if you did anything else people would do things like burning you alive. Even now, although it’s not usually as violent religion is frequently very coercive.
- stickfigure 5mo ago
  Newton spent more of his life working on alchemy than math or physics. Shall we all start searching for the Philosopher's Stone? Why not?
vladms 5mo ago
In medicine, placebo was proven to have a positive effect. Maybe we will learn about similar effects about other things. Now, if only we would convince everybody that those supernatural beings don't work through representatives that everybody must listen, that would already be an improvement!
- prewett 5mo ago
  Why wouldn't supernatural beings work through representatives? For one thing, they are presumably only going to work through people that are committed to their (the beings') agenda. And why would supernatural beings necessarily be populist? Until the Christian revolution, the dominant thought was that the supernatural beings were elitist; all of the heroes in Greek mythology were nobility of some form.
  - IAmBroom 5mo ago
    A myriad Christian monarchies have believed in Divine Right. The Christian revolution had no effect on this idea.

Tangurena2 5mo ago

> Whenever you say "nobody would be that stupid" you have to pause and take a deep breath and realise that however dumb something is, there are for sure people who are stupid enough to do it. Long ago, I graduated from a police academy. One of the things taught was that crooks, while clever at finding ways to make money, are rather unclever ("stupid" if you will) at performing that task. Which is why so many are caught. The smart engineer who over-estimated his ability with sewing is a tragic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I'm reminded of the Dunning Kruger paper [0]: > In 1995, McArthur Wheeler walked into two Pittsburgh banks and robbed them in broad daylight, with no visible attempt at disguise. He was arrested later that night, less than an hour after videotapes of him taken from surveillance cameras were broadcast on the 11 o'clock news. When police later showed him the surveillance tapes, Mr. Wheeler stared in incredulity. "But I wore the juice," he mumbled. Apparently, Mr. Wheeler was under the impression that rubbing one's face with lemon juice rendered it invisible to videotape cameras. Links: 0 - that paper itself: https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/sasi/wp-content/uploads/sites/275/2015/11/krugerdunning99.pdf https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/sasi/wp-content/uploads/sites/27...

bitmasher9 5mo ago
I think we often underestimate the intelligence of the criminal population for two main reasons. 1. The dumbest ones are most likely to be caught and have their stories told. 2. Law Enforcement often gets frustrated at chasing the smarter ones and use illegal methods catching them and the real story doesn’t come out in court.
- jermaustin1 5mo ago
  > the real story doesn’t come out in court. I'm not saying this hasn't happened, but any competent criminal defense attorney (like a SMART criminal would have) would go to town on illegally obtained evidence. I'm not saying cops don't do warrantless searches/taps/etc., to gather unofficial clues, but if they can't get real evidence that stands up under scrutiny, the criminal walks. I'm not sure if prosecution would move forward on such shaky ground in hard to prove cases.

ericyd 5mo ago

The first story could literally be a sketch on a comedy show, thanks for the laugh

dieselgate 5mo ago
Reminds me of safety trainings where they show machine-shop accidents or people nailing themselves with an air-gun. It happens more than we think and is gruesome. Just a couple months ago saw a Dewalt framing nailer recall posted at home depot for accidental discharges without the trigger being held. Not the same as drilling into your stomach - and I see a black comedy element - but can't help but wince and cringe at the thought of it all and it's not genuinely funny to me.
- ericyd 5mo ago
  The drilling into oneself is not funny. The feeding an obviously seriously injured person soup to deduce the severity of their illness is funny as hell to me

nojs 5mo ago

that was a fantastic story, thanks