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I was curious how a man in Switzerland gets charged in the US for a placing bets on a site that doesn't allow the US to participate. The short answer seems to

I was curious how a man in Switzerland gets charged in the US for a placing bets on a site that doesn't allow the US to participate. The short answer seems to be that he stole private information from a US company and used that information to enrich himself. And then got that charge enhanced with things like wire fraud and transacting on systems involving US currency. And another commentor suggests that punishing insider traders in a step towards legitimzing and regulating prediction markets in the US.

scheme271 4mo ago
The interesting part is that he got charged with insider trading. A few attorneys on bluesky have pointed out that this is a novel use of this law since previously the trading occurred on regulated markets (e.g. SEC or CFTC regulated markets like stock markets and commodities/futures exchanges).
- tsimionescu 4mo ago
  These markets are regulated by the CFTC, currently, so what exactly is novel here?
  - kasey_junk 4mo ago
    Poly market is not a us exchange. Kalshi is.
    - tsimionescu 4mo ago
      So is Polymarket US, the separate entity Polymarket created specifically for the USA.
    - brainwad 4mo ago
      The argument goes that because Polymarket (.com) doesn't effectively block US users, it is in practice operating in the US even though it claims not to be. Similar to how the EU claims jurisdiction over foreign sites that process EU citizen data for GDPR.
- 5555624 4mo ago
  They are regulated. That's why Connecticut, Arizona, and Illinois are being sued by the government. They tried to regulate these markets and the CFTC says they regulate them, not the states.
jeroenhd 4mo ago
You can charge anyone in the world with anything, the trouble is getting a judge to agree with you and getting your hands on the person you're charging. The first problem doesn't seem to be all that hard in the US (unless the inside traders are part of the US government, of course), the second problem can be as simple as having Google organise an all-expenses-paid team activity to bait the subject into jurisdiction. If the basis for their charges really is just that he traded in dollars, then this is yet another example why nobody should trust Americans and their currency when it comes to trade. I hope they can come up with something better than that.
- A_D_E_P_T 4mo ago
  > the second problem can be as simple as having Google organise an all-expenses-paid team activity to bait the subject into jurisdiction. This actually happens. I know that the FBI once organized an all-expenses-paid trip to a "conference in Hawaii" for certain Chinese chemists it wanted to nab. The corollary is that if you have reason to expect you're wanted by American Feds, never travel outside China, Russia, and certain European states that are extraordinarily hesitant to extradite to the US (e.g. Ireland).
  - hansvm 4mo ago
    And never have an emergency (accidentally, FBI-forced landing, etc) causing you to accidentally inhabit those countries either.
    - caminante 4mo ago
      I thought I'd heard of this but couldn't find enough examples of this, let alone an FBI induced landing. It appears REALLY hard to step over jurisdictions. I did find the PLO terrorist incident from 1985. The terrorists killed an American on a cruiseship, Achille Lauro. Reagan sent a fighter jet to intercept, escort, and force a landing in Italy for the commercial jet the terrorists were later flying on. There are other examples like forcing downed flights in the hunt for Snowden, but it's super rare and ultimately unlikely.
esalman 4mo ago
US charged and arrested a man in Venezuela so...
- iammrpayments 4mo ago
  Don’t think they will mobilize 40 elite soldiers to invade Switzerland airspace just because of a small sum of a million dollars
  - newaccount670 4mo ago
    They don't need to because he has already been arrested in New York. There should be some sort of basic literacy requirement for people to post of this forum.
    - iammrpayments 4mo ago
      Don’t so hard on yourself.
  - Tangurena2 4mo ago
    He doesn't have any oil. Therefore the US won't invade.
CommonGuy 4mo ago
He was arrested in New York, so he was in the US
- sofixa 4mo ago
  That doesn't mean he has committed a crime in the US though.
lesuorac 4mo ago
> transacting on systems involving US currency. Transacting on systems involving a currency (USDC) that is pegged to a US currency. Pretty sure he sold Swiss Francs for USDC and deposited those onto Polymarket (after running them through mixers -- hence the money laundering charges).
WarmWash 4mo ago
A little bit of an open secret, but insider trading is a large part of what makes prediction markets valuable to society on the whole. However, it requires a small set of people to lose money so that the rest of us can have a clearer picture of the future.

scheme271 4mo ago

The interesting part is that he got charged with insider trading. A few attorneys on bluesky have pointed out that this is a novel use of this law since previously the trading occurred on regulated markets (e.g. SEC or CFTC regulated markets like stock markets and commodities/futures exchanges).

tsimionescu 4mo ago
These markets are regulated by the CFTC, currently, so what exactly is novel here?
- kasey_junk 4mo ago
  Poly market is not a us exchange. Kalshi is.
  - tsimionescu 4mo ago
    So is Polymarket US, the separate entity Polymarket created specifically for the USA.
  - brainwad 4mo ago
    The argument goes that because Polymarket (.com) doesn't effectively block US users, it is in practice operating in the US even though it claims not to be. Similar to how the EU claims jurisdiction over foreign sites that process EU citizen data for GDPR.
5555624 4mo ago
They are regulated. That's why Connecticut, Arizona, and Illinois are being sued by the government. They tried to regulate these markets and the CFTC says they regulate them, not the states.

jeroenhd 4mo ago

You can charge anyone in the world with anything, the trouble is getting a judge to agree with you and getting your hands on the person you're charging. The first problem doesn't seem to be all that hard in the US (unless the inside traders are part of the US government, of course), the second problem can be as simple as having Google organise an all-expenses-paid team activity to bait the subject into jurisdiction. If the basis for their charges really is just that he traded in dollars, then this is yet another example why nobody should trust Americans and their currency when it comes to trade. I hope they can come up with something better than that.

A_D_E_P_T 4mo ago
> the second problem can be as simple as having Google organise an all-expenses-paid team activity to bait the subject into jurisdiction. This actually happens. I know that the FBI once organized an all-expenses-paid trip to a "conference in Hawaii" for certain Chinese chemists it wanted to nab. The corollary is that if you have reason to expect you're wanted by American Feds, never travel outside China, Russia, and certain European states that are extraordinarily hesitant to extradite to the US (e.g. Ireland).
- hansvm 4mo ago
  And never have an emergency (accidentally, FBI-forced landing, etc) causing you to accidentally inhabit those countries either.
  - caminante 4mo ago
    I thought I'd heard of this but couldn't find enough examples of this, let alone an FBI induced landing. It appears REALLY hard to step over jurisdictions. I did find the PLO terrorist incident from 1985. The terrorists killed an American on a cruiseship, Achille Lauro. Reagan sent a fighter jet to intercept, escort, and force a landing in Italy for the commercial jet the terrorists were later flying on. There are other examples like forcing downed flights in the hunt for Snowden, but it's super rare and ultimately unlikely.

esalman 4mo ago

US charged and arrested a man in Venezuela so...

iammrpayments 4mo ago
Don’t think they will mobilize 40 elite soldiers to invade Switzerland airspace just because of a small sum of a million dollars
- newaccount670 4mo ago
  They don't need to because he has already been arrested in New York. There should be some sort of basic literacy requirement for people to post of this forum.
  - iammrpayments 4mo ago
    Don’t so hard on yourself.
- Tangurena2 4mo ago
  He doesn't have any oil. Therefore the US won't invade.

CommonGuy 4mo ago

He was arrested in New York, so he was in the US

sofixa 4mo ago
That doesn't mean he has committed a crime in the US though.

lesuorac 4mo ago

> transacting on systems involving US currency. Transacting on systems involving a currency (USDC) that is pegged to a US currency. Pretty sure he sold Swiss Francs for USDC and deposited those onto Polymarket (after running them through mixers -- hence the money laundering charges).

WarmWash 4mo ago

A little bit of an open secret, but insider trading is a large part of what makes prediction markets valuable to society on the whole. However, it requires a small set of people to lose money so that the rest of us can have a clearer picture of the future.