5 ms·

My dad was a stock broker in the late 1970s and remembers when most of trading was 100% manual and firms actually had "runners" who would take stock certificate

My dad was a stock broker in the late 1970s and remembers when most of trading was 100% manual and firms actually had "runners" who would take stock certificates back and forth between trading firms. He has this great quote about when computers came out: "We were told 'computers will save you so much time on work tasks that you won't even know what to do with your free time'. I spent the next 30 years working the same number of hours. "

paulddraper 5mo ago
Because human nature it to want more, more than wanting idleness.
- class3shock 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - paulddraper 5mo ago
    That's also true, inclusively.
    - class3shock 5mo ago
      No, the average worker does not live to work. The average shareholder and executive lives to extract every ounce of work possible out of the average workers.
- engineer_22 5mo ago
  Weird to be downvoted for obviously correct analysis...
  - paulddraper 5mo ago
    Never underestimate people’s desire to blame the environment.
xiaoyu2006 5mo ago
Human had all the industrialization and stuff, yet we work 5 days / week now.
- krapp 5mo ago
  People work 5 days a week because of protracted violent strikes by unions and socialist revolutionaries forcing governments to recognize labor rights. Prior to that the norm was working 7 days a week, sunup to sundown, with only Christmas off, from adolescence until you died.
  - 11101010010001 5mo ago
    SEs would rather play many player versions of the prisoner's dilemma than unionize.
  - lofties 5mo ago
    You're right. We need to bring back protracted violent strikes by unions and socialists!
    - zasz 5mo ago
      You know the ones bringing most of the violence were the state and private goons hired by capitalists, right?
    - babelfish 5mo ago
      When rights are equal, force wins. This is true for either the worker or the employer. Hence why employers frequently employed private firms to commit said violence on unions.
  - zeroonetwothree 5mo ago
    Not really true but it’s a nice story
    - krapp 5mo ago
      It's a nice story and it's true. Weekends, sick days, vacation days, being paid in legal tender and not company scrip, maternity leave, safety regulations, disabled affordance, banning child labor, civil rights and womens' rights (while they lasted) and the minimum wage. All due to socialist activism and a non-zero amount of violence.
throw0101a 5mo ago
> He has this great quote about when computers came out: "We were told 'computers will save you so much time on work tasks that you won't even know what to do with your free time'. I spent the next 30 years working the same number of hours. " From about one hundred years ago: > Now it is true that the needs of human beings may seem to be insatiable. But they fall into two classes --those needs which are absolute in the sense that we feel them whatever the situation of our fellow human beings may be, and those which are relative in the sense that we feel them only if their satisfaction lifts us above, makes us feel superior to, our fellows. Needs of the second class, those which satisfy the desire for superiority, may indeed be insatiable; for the higher the general level, the higher still are they. But this is not so true of the absolute needs-a point may soon be reached, much sooner perhaps than we are all of us aware of, when these needs are satisfied in the sense that we prefer to devote our further energies to non-economic purposes. […] > For many ages to come the old Adam will be so strong in us that everybody will need to do some work if he is to be contented. We shall do more things for ourselves than is usual with the rich to-day, only too glad to have small duties and tasks and routines. But beyond this, we shall endeavour to spread the bread thin on the butter-to make what work there is still to be done to be as widely shared as possible. Three-hour shifts or a fifteen-hour week may put off the problem for a great while. For three hours a day is quite enough to satisfy the old Adam in most of us! * John Maynard Keynes, "Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren" (1930) * http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf An essay putting forward / hypothesizing four reasons on why the above did not happen (We haven't spread the wealth around enough; People actually love working; There's no limit to human desires; Leisure is expensive): * https://www.vox.com/2014/11/20/7254877/keynes-work-leisure https://www.vox.com/2014/11/20/7254877/keynes-work-leisure
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- manmal 5mo ago
  In some European countries, you can actually go on welfare and never work again. It takes some tricks because the state doesn’t like it; and maybe you‘ll want to do some undeclared side jobs for 15h a week and you’ll be comfortable. I don’t know how such people can live with themselves. But apparently, if you’re immune to the second factor, it is possible, nowadays, to work 15h or less, without any wealth, and lead a good life. The only thing threatening this status quo is corporations and rich people pulling their wealth into other states; and related, being net importers. I don’t understand why the EU is allowing this to happen. They should grow some teeth finally.
sharpshadow 5mo ago
It is the fundamental requirement of capitalism to convert every increase in productivity into profit rather than into time. In a communist society where the people own the means of production collectively the measure of wealth would not be money but disposable free time.
- redrove 5mo ago
  So the theory goes. Can you point out one place where this is working out?
Willish42 5mo ago
Computers feel like a pretty good analogy for how AI will affect the workforce. I suspect productivity will massively increase, the complexity and cognitive load of our work will similarly multiply, and yet we'll still being doing the now-more-complex work in some capacity for a similar number of hours.
m463 5mo ago
sounds like the promise of nuclear power... "Too cheap to meter" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter
- alexpotato 5mo ago
  This became true for long distance phone calls. They used to charge you by the minute but now it's easier to just charge you a flat charge per month.

paulddraper 5mo ago

Because human nature it to want more, more than wanting idleness.

class3shock 5mo ago
[flagged]
- paulddraper 5mo ago
  That's also true, inclusively.
  - class3shock 5mo ago
    No, the average worker does not live to work. The average shareholder and executive lives to extract every ounce of work possible out of the average workers.
engineer_22 5mo ago
Weird to be downvoted for obviously correct analysis...
- paulddraper 5mo ago
  Never underestimate people’s desire to blame the environment.

xiaoyu2006 5mo ago

Human had all the industrialization and stuff, yet we work 5 days / week now.

krapp 5mo ago
People work 5 days a week because of protracted violent strikes by unions and socialist revolutionaries forcing governments to recognize labor rights. Prior to that the norm was working 7 days a week, sunup to sundown, with only Christmas off, from adolescence until you died.
- 11101010010001 5mo ago
  SEs would rather play many player versions of the prisoner's dilemma than unionize.
- lofties 5mo ago
  You're right. We need to bring back protracted violent strikes by unions and socialists!
  - zasz 5mo ago
    You know the ones bringing most of the violence were the state and private goons hired by capitalists, right?
  - babelfish 5mo ago
    When rights are equal, force wins. This is true for either the worker or the employer. Hence why employers frequently employed private firms to commit said violence on unions.
- zeroonetwothree 5mo ago
  Not really true but it’s a nice story
  - krapp 5mo ago
    It's a nice story and it's true. Weekends, sick days, vacation days, being paid in legal tender and not company scrip, maternity leave, safety regulations, disabled affordance, banning child labor, civil rights and womens' rights (while they lasted) and the minimum wage. All due to socialist activism and a non-zero amount of violence.

throw0101a 5mo ago

> He has this great quote about when computers came out: "We were told 'computers will save you so much time on work tasks that you won't even know what to do with your free time'. I spent the next 30 years working the same number of hours. " From about one hundred years ago: > Now it is true that the needs of human beings may seem to be insatiable. But they fall into two classes --those needs which are absolute in the sense that we feel them whatever the situation of our fellow human beings may be, and those which are relative in the sense that we feel them only if their satisfaction lifts us above, makes us feel superior to, our fellows. Needs of the second class, those which satisfy the desire for superiority, may indeed be insatiable; for the higher the general level, the higher still are they. But this is not so true of the absolute needs-a point may soon be reached, much sooner perhaps than we are all of us aware of, when these needs are satisfied in the sense that we prefer to devote our further energies to non-economic purposes. […] > For many ages to come the old Adam will be so strong in us that everybody will need to do some work if he is to be contented. We shall do more things for ourselves than is usual with the rich to-day, only too glad to have small duties and tasks and routines. But beyond this, we shall endeavour to spread the bread thin on the butter-to make what work there is still to be done to be as widely shared as possible. Three-hour shifts or a fifteen-hour week may put off the problem for a great while. For three hours a day is quite enough to satisfy the old Adam in most of us! * John Maynard Keynes, "Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren" (1930) * http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf An essay putting forward / hypothesizing four reasons on why the above did not happen (We haven't spread the wealth around enough; People actually love working; There's no limit to human desires; Leisure is expensive): * https://www.vox.com/2014/11/20/7254877/keynes-work-leisure https://www.vox.com/2014/11/20/7254877/keynes-work-leisure

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
manmal 5mo ago
In some European countries, you can actually go on welfare and never work again. It takes some tricks because the state doesn’t like it; and maybe you‘ll want to do some undeclared side jobs for 15h a week and you’ll be comfortable. I don’t know how such people can live with themselves. But apparently, if you’re immune to the second factor, it is possible, nowadays, to work 15h or less, without any wealth, and lead a good life. The only thing threatening this status quo is corporations and rich people pulling their wealth into other states; and related, being net importers. I don’t understand why the EU is allowing this to happen. They should grow some teeth finally.

sharpshadow 5mo ago

It is the fundamental requirement of capitalism to convert every increase in productivity into profit rather than into time. In a communist society where the people own the means of production collectively the measure of wealth would not be money but disposable free time.

redrove 5mo ago
So the theory goes. Can you point out one place where this is working out?

Willish42 5mo ago

Computers feel like a pretty good analogy for how AI will affect the workforce. I suspect productivity will massively increase, the complexity and cognitive load of our work will similarly multiply, and yet we'll still being doing the now-more-complex work in some capacity for a similar number of hours.

m463 5mo ago

sounds like the promise of nuclear power... "Too cheap to meter" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter

alexpotato 5mo ago
This became true for long distance phone calls. They used to charge you by the minute but now it's easier to just charge you a flat charge per month.