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> Driving an increase in total queries is probably because instead of just Googling something and getting the right results like it was 10~ years ago, now you h

by esseph 5mo ago

> Driving an increase in total queries is probably because instead of just Googling something and getting the right results like it was 10~ years ago, now you have to interrogate a chatbot or try multiple queries. I would think higher total queries is more an indicator that your search function isn't effective. I wonder how much the search results thing is related to language and locality. I have a hunch but I haven't really dug into it. I live in the US, I speak English, and my browser is normally chrome. The number of times I've gone to the 2nd page in Google search results you can probably count on one hand in the last 15yr or so. I use the standard Google search things when I want specifics... Using quotes, site:news.ycombinator.com to search a site, or add a "-" to remove results from that site. I use a "+" when needed. Nothing fancy. When people say they can't find things in Google search, I'm genuinely baffled. I have a strong suspicion that it has something to do with the combination of browser, locality, and language. Why? Could be tons of reasons for that, some probably anti-competitive on the browser side. I have tried to use ecosia, start page, duckduckgo, etc. Was never happy with those results and always ended up back at Google search. I just want to know what's different, you know? I look up some pretty obscure stuff sometimes. Note: I do normally have my Google account logged in in the browser when doing search, however I have search personalization and history turned off, so that should not be influencing the quality of my search results compared to whatever "baseline" is.

WarmWash 5mo ago
It started when Google made a hard push to improve search for everyday people. They essentially nerfed "expert google skills" to bolster "noob google skills". Regular people are/were really bad at using google, so google moved towards showing what it thinks you want rather than what you want. They paved over the skill gap between people who understood keywords and word order, and people who just typed in a quasi legible sentence to find something. In doing so though, they killed a lot of skill that people had developed with google for years. Basically they made the game worse for pros so it could be better for amateurs. I have never heard a non-tech person complain about google getting worse over the years, and they seem to overwhelmingly use AI overviews now too.
- pbhjpbhj 5mo ago
  >"a hard push to improve search for everyday people" Citation needed. A hard push to change their search offering, sure. To improve it? Well, if by improve you mean 'require more interaction and viewing of more adverts on average before leaving' ...
  - WarmWash 5mo ago
    Again, if you have been on HN since 2009, you are likely on the far fringe of Google's user demographics, which at this point is pretty much "The average human being on Earth". I would bet all of my money that you never once did a Google search (pre-LLM mania, but maybe even after) that looked like "What kind of clothing is best for when you are going hiking around the lake, so my feet don't get so cold?" Sadly, this is how most humans have used a search engine for decades now.
    - watwut 5mo ago
      I find that weird assumption. Why would you expect HN people not do such searches? They worked for years. And you frequently ended up finding a discussion forum with around that question and relevant discussion under it.
      - WarmWash 5mo ago
        Because OG tech nerds would google like Forum hiking warm socks backpacking trail running Which was basically a structured programmatic query that activated the old google algo just right.
    - pbhjpbhj 5mo ago
      Fwiw, I do/did plain language searches for the last couple of years, following Google's lead - I think the more natural language searches have only really been in the last 5 years. I often use terse searches too, mostly when I forget to write it out longhand to satisfy Google - but either way it's getting less wheat with my vat of chaff in the SERPs and several times recently I've had to re-phrase to get anything useful.

by esseph 5mo ago

WarmWash 5mo ago

It started when Google made a hard push to improve search for everyday people. They essentially nerfed "expert google skills" to bolster "noob google skills". Regular people are/were really bad at using google, so google moved towards showing what it thinks you want rather than what you want. They paved over the skill gap between people who understood keywords and word order, and people who just typed in a quasi legible sentence to find something. In doing so though, they killed a lot of skill that people had developed with google for years. Basically they made the game worse for pros so it could be better for amateurs. I have never heard a non-tech person complain about google getting worse over the years, and they seem to overwhelmingly use AI overviews now too.

pbhjpbhj 5mo ago
>"a hard push to improve search for everyday people" Citation needed. A hard push to change their search offering, sure. To improve it? Well, if by improve you mean 'require more interaction and viewing of more adverts on average before leaving' ...
- WarmWash 5mo ago
  Again, if you have been on HN since 2009, you are likely on the far fringe of Google's user demographics, which at this point is pretty much "The average human being on Earth". I would bet all of my money that you never once did a Google search (pre-LLM mania, but maybe even after) that looked like "What kind of clothing is best for when you are going hiking around the lake, so my feet don't get so cold?" Sadly, this is how most humans have used a search engine for decades now.
  - watwut 5mo ago
    I find that weird assumption. Why would you expect HN people not do such searches? They worked for years. And you frequently ended up finding a discussion forum with around that question and relevant discussion under it.
    - WarmWash 5mo ago
      Because OG tech nerds would google like Forum hiking warm socks backpacking trail running Which was basically a structured programmatic query that activated the old google algo just right.
  - pbhjpbhj 5mo ago
    Fwiw, I do/did plain language searches for the last couple of years, following Google's lead - I think the more natural language searches have only really been in the last 5 years. I often use terse searches too, mostly when I forget to write it out longhand to satisfy Google - but either way it's getting less wheat with my vat of chaff in the SERPs and several times recently I've had to re-phrase to get anything useful.