4 ms·

I got hit with a fraudulent chargeback (claim was the purchase was unauthorized and the person showed up in person to a class) and it was doubly bad because the

I got hit with a fraudulent chargeback (claim was the purchase was unauthorized and the person showed up in person to a class) and it was doubly bad because they paid via Link which means that Stripe actively verified them via 2FA. Can someone explain to me why Stripe (or a competitor) doesn't offer a setting "refuse transactions for cards that have filed > x chargebacks with <acquirer> merchants this year"?

cperciva 4mo ago
claim was the purchase was unauthorized and the person showed up in person to a class Certainly a person showed up in person to a class, but how do you know it was the person whose credit card was used?
- bberenberg 4mo ago
  It matched their LinkedIn photo.
  - jagged-chisel 4mo ago
    [flagged]
    - mattmaroon 4mo ago
      Do you imagine someone got a stolen credit card, made a linkedin with that name, used the card to attend a live class under the fake ID, or are you just doing the classic hacker news aaaaactually? Comments like this have ruined this site. We all know that’s never happened once in history.
      - lunchbucket 4mo ago
        If you care about the quality of the site, consider the guidelines about not responding to a bad comment with a worse one and not griping about how HN has gotten terrible or turned into reddit or what there you. Downvote, flag, and move on to better discussion, and you'll spend a lot more time engaging and contributing to good discussions. Contributing to good discussions is the highest leverage way to promote the quality of the site. Spending time in poor discussions is what makes it feel like HN has gone to crap.
        mattmaroon 4mo ago
        Fair point. I think we’ve all tried that and it isn’t working, and pointing out to people they’re being annoying could help. But probably won’t, so you’re probably right.
        lunchbucket 4mo ago
        The odds that someone meaningfully reflects on their behavior when you tell them they're what's wrong with HN are pretty slim. You can substantially increase those odds by being more neutral about it. It's entirely possible HN is dying, HN won't last forever and dang has said he is very concerned about the direction he sees the commentary going. But it's also entirely possible that the quality waxes and wanes primarily due to internal factors and that political tensions, AI bots and slop submissions, etc are external factors straining HN that will eventually be resolved. Either way, the "real HN" I find is still here if you look for it, and I have always seen people on here who complain about the quality of the site but when you go to their comment history (I have not looked at your comment history to be clear) you see they're constantly getting into arguments and architecting a miserable experience for themselves. One's experience on HN is largely what they make it. At any rate I appreciate you considering.
    - esseph 4mo ago
      While funny, I literally just used my LinkedIn picture in a legal case of mistaken identity on behalf of a US state. Not kidding.
SpicyLemonZest 4mo ago
I don't know this is the reason, but if I were asked to build such a system, I'd be pretty worried that it constitutes a consumer report under the terms of the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Certainly I wouldn't want the inevitable news drama about it. "I'm just a poor innocent grandma, I'm a trusting person when it comes to Facebook ads, and Stripe punished me for getting scammed by banning me from half the stores on the Internet!"
- AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
  If your card is actually stolen then you should have the card number changed to prevent additional fraud and then the disputes would be against the old card number rather than the new one, right?
  - SpicyLemonZest 4mo ago
    If your card is stolen you should, but not necessarily if you fall for a Facebook ad that ships you a pile of rocks or a paper photo of the product you thought you bought.
    - AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
      Isn't that exactly when you should have your card number changed? You gave your card info to a blatant fraudster. If they're willing to ship you a pile of rocks then there's a significant chance they're willing to use the card info you gave them to make fraudulent purchases.
mriet 4mo ago
Their business model is to allow as many possible "valid" transactions, not to serve their "clients". They're a PSP...
gingerlime 4mo ago
Yeah, though this rule sounds a bit tricky. Like what if someone legitimately had their card abused. The thing that gets me is that Stripe boasts about their machine learning radar rules etc etc, but somehow can't feed it actually valuable data. Stripe support saw the emails from the customer boasting about defrauding me, they completely agreed that this is a clear case of friendly-fraud, but did nothing with this info.
- bberenberg 4mo ago
  Stripe can’t do anything per the way CCs work. Asking for that to change is a big ask. Asking my vendor to help me not do business with people who are likely to scam me is a smaller one.
  - gingerlime 4mo ago
    100% agree. They cannot reverse the dispute. I already lost the money. I understand. But Stripe is exactly in a position to at least use the evidence I provided (in this case, the evidence included the customer clearly admitting to friendly fraud), and feed it into their fraud-prevention system in some way. This way, lots of signals can help protect merchants from friendly fraudsters. So yes, I see it as a pretty small and legit ask from Stripe.

cperciva 4mo ago

claim was the purchase was unauthorized and the person showed up in person to a class Certainly a person showed up in person to a class, but how do you know it was the person whose credit card was used?

bberenberg 4mo ago
It matched their LinkedIn photo.
- jagged-chisel 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - mattmaroon 4mo ago
    Do you imagine someone got a stolen credit card, made a linkedin with that name, used the card to attend a live class under the fake ID, or are you just doing the classic hacker news aaaaactually? Comments like this have ruined this site. We all know that’s never happened once in history.
    - lunchbucket 4mo ago
      If you care about the quality of the site, consider the guidelines about not responding to a bad comment with a worse one and not griping about how HN has gotten terrible or turned into reddit or what there you. Downvote, flag, and move on to better discussion, and you'll spend a lot more time engaging and contributing to good discussions. Contributing to good discussions is the highest leverage way to promote the quality of the site. Spending time in poor discussions is what makes it feel like HN has gone to crap.
      - mattmaroon 4mo ago
        Fair point. I think we’ve all tried that and it isn’t working, and pointing out to people they’re being annoying could help. But probably won’t, so you’re probably right.
        lunchbucket 4mo ago
        The odds that someone meaningfully reflects on their behavior when you tell them they're what's wrong with HN are pretty slim. You can substantially increase those odds by being more neutral about it. It's entirely possible HN is dying, HN won't last forever and dang has said he is very concerned about the direction he sees the commentary going. But it's also entirely possible that the quality waxes and wanes primarily due to internal factors and that political tensions, AI bots and slop submissions, etc are external factors straining HN that will eventually be resolved. Either way, the "real HN" I find is still here if you look for it, and I have always seen people on here who complain about the quality of the site but when you go to their comment history (I have not looked at your comment history to be clear) you see they're constantly getting into arguments and architecting a miserable experience for themselves. One's experience on HN is largely what they make it. At any rate I appreciate you considering.
  - esseph 4mo ago
    While funny, I literally just used my LinkedIn picture in a legal case of mistaken identity on behalf of a US state. Not kidding.

SpicyLemonZest 4mo ago

I don't know this is the reason, but if I were asked to build such a system, I'd be pretty worried that it constitutes a consumer report under the terms of the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Certainly I wouldn't want the inevitable news drama about it. "I'm just a poor innocent grandma, I'm a trusting person when it comes to Facebook ads, and Stripe punished me for getting scammed by banning me from half the stores on the Internet!"

AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
If your card is actually stolen then you should have the card number changed to prevent additional fraud and then the disputes would be against the old card number rather than the new one, right?
- SpicyLemonZest 4mo ago
  If your card is stolen you should, but not necessarily if you fall for a Facebook ad that ships you a pile of rocks or a paper photo of the product you thought you bought.
  - AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
    Isn't that exactly when you should have your card number changed? You gave your card info to a blatant fraudster. If they're willing to ship you a pile of rocks then there's a significant chance they're willing to use the card info you gave them to make fraudulent purchases.

mriet 4mo ago

Their business model is to allow as many possible "valid" transactions, not to serve their "clients". They're a PSP...

gingerlime 4mo ago

Yeah, though this rule sounds a bit tricky. Like what if someone legitimately had their card abused. The thing that gets me is that Stripe boasts about their machine learning radar rules etc etc, but somehow can't feed it actually valuable data. Stripe support saw the emails from the customer boasting about defrauding me, they completely agreed that this is a clear case of friendly-fraud, but did nothing with this info.

bberenberg 4mo ago
Stripe can’t do anything per the way CCs work. Asking for that to change is a big ask. Asking my vendor to help me not do business with people who are likely to scam me is a smaller one.
- gingerlime 4mo ago
  100% agree. They cannot reverse the dispute. I already lost the money. I understand. But Stripe is exactly in a position to at least use the evidence I provided (in this case, the evidence included the customer clearly admitting to friendly fraud), and feed it into their fraud-prevention system in some way. This way, lots of signals can help protect merchants from friendly fraudsters. So yes, I see it as a pretty small and legit ask from Stripe.