5 ms·

And your Second its cause for constant anxiety.

by nsns 14y ago

csense 14y ago
Your anxiety is misplaced. I've lived in the US my entire life and I've never witnessed a crime involving firearms. If gunpowder had just been invented, and guns only existed in the hands of a few companies, scientists, and inventors, then gun control might work. But since the USA was originally (from Europe's viewpoint) a vast, wild frontier, guns have been very common throughout the USA for all of its history. Pretend that firearms were magically outlawed in the US tomorrow. But there are millions already in circulation. So people who are determined to get a gun, aren't concerned about following the law, and are willing and able to pay, would certainly still have access to the weapons. A firearm ban would only punish conscientious, law-abiding citizens who want firearms because they're a fun hobby, or to protect their families from armed criminals. And then there's the other reason for the Second Amendment: Revolution is the final defense against tyranny. Power corrupts, and the people who started the USA were under no illusions that the government they created was perfect and would remain so forever. If a future US government somehow manages to undo all the Constitutional safeguards and exercise unchecked power, or finds some clever way to be really crappy to the citizens while remaining within the letter of the law and the Constitution, the people can always withdraw their consent to be governed, and, being armed, can have a decent chance of winning. Remember that the Second Amendment was approved not long after the USA's independence from Great Britain, and its authors had personal experience with armed revolution against an oppressive government. Many people who are unfamiliar with firearms tend to have a visceral reaction: They're scary and bad. Think about how many people who are unfamiliar with computers tend to have a similar reaction. Try to move past your prejudice and try to find reasons for your beliefs. If you can, great -- let's have a debate! If you can't, please spend 30 minutes thinking about your worldview; try to make it logical and consistent by changing beliefs and/or thinking up new lines of reasoning.
- tommorris 14y ago
  "Revolution is the final defense against tyranny. Power corrupts, and the people who started the USA were under no illusions that the government they created was perfect and would remain so forever." And how exactly are a bunch of citizens with handguns and shotguns going to stand up against the US military? While the NRA crowd are all polishing their pistols and claiming they'll be able to start American Revolution 2.0 if necessary, the US military have nuclear bombs, bioweapons, tanks, more fighter jets than you can ever imagine, drones, and a few nuclear armed submarines they can have pootling up and down the Mississippi.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    And how exactly are a bunch of citizens with handguns and shotguns going to stand up against the US military? Gee, I dunno, why don't you ask the Viet Cong, where a bunch of citizens used a skillful blend of politics and home court advantage to win against everything the US military could throw at them? Or the Mahdi Army, which made the Iraq occupation untenable with weapons that could be improvised with materials found in any Home Depot? Or Al Qaeda, where a tiny handful of fighters rope-a-doped us into trillions of dollars in losses and thousands of casualties with absolutely nothing to show for either? All of the weapons you mention exist at the tip of a very long, meandering spear. They all depend on a brittle logistics chain that is no stronger than its weakest link. Any attempt to use any of those weapons against US citizens would end very badly for the military or political leaders behind it. That's not something that can be said about most countries, and our Second Amendment is a key reason why it's true here.
- mylittlepony 14y ago
  Then why don't you stand up and recover your right to not being detained indefinitely without a fair trial, your right to move freely around the country without being asked for ID, your right to privacy, to mention a few? All those rights have been taken away by the government and you did nothing.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    Because then we would be accused of being a bunch of trigger-happy cowboys who resort to armed revolt at the slightest provocation?

And your Second its cause for constant anxiety.

by nsns 14y ago

And your Second its cause for constant anxiety.

Your anxiety is misplaced. I've lived in the US my entire life and I've never witnessed a crime involving firearms. If gunpowder had just been invented, and guns only existed in the hands of a few companies, scientists, and inventors, then gun control might work. But since the USA was originally (from Europe's viewpoint) a vast, wild frontier, guns have been very common throughout the USA for all of its history. Pretend that firearms were magically outlawed in the US tomorrow. But there are millions already in circulation. So people who are determined to get a gun, aren't concerned about following the law, and are willing and able to pay, would certainly still have access to the weapons. A firearm ban would only punish conscientious, law-abiding citizens who want firearms because they're a fun hobby, or to protect their families from armed criminals. And then there's the other reason for the Second Amendment: Revolution is the final defense against tyranny. Power corrupts, and the people who started the USA were under no illusions that the government they created was perfect and would remain so forever. If a future US government somehow manages to undo all the Constitutional safeguards and exercise unchecked power, or finds some clever way to be really crappy to the citizens while remaining within the letter of the law and the Constitution, the people can always withdraw their consent to be governed, and, being armed, can have a decent chance of winning. Remember that the Second Amendment was approved not long after the USA's independence from Great Britain, and its authors had personal experience with armed revolution against an oppressive government. Many people who are unfamiliar with firearms tend to have a visceral reaction: They're scary and bad. Think about how many people who are unfamiliar with computers tend to have a similar reaction. Try to move past your prejudice and try to find reasons for your beliefs. If you can, great -- let's have a debate! If you can't, please spend 30 minutes thinking about your worldview; try to make it logical and consistent by changing beliefs and/or thinking up new lines of reasoning.

tommorris 14y ago
"Revolution is the final defense against tyranny. Power corrupts, and the people who started the USA were under no illusions that the government they created was perfect and would remain so forever." And how exactly are a bunch of citizens with handguns and shotguns going to stand up against the US military? While the NRA crowd are all polishing their pistols and claiming they'll be able to start American Revolution 2.0 if necessary, the US military have nuclear bombs, bioweapons, tanks, more fighter jets than you can ever imagine, drones, and a few nuclear armed submarines they can have pootling up and down the Mississippi.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  And how exactly are a bunch of citizens with handguns and shotguns going to stand up against the US military? Gee, I dunno, why don't you ask the Viet Cong, where a bunch of citizens used a skillful blend of politics and home court advantage to win against everything the US military could throw at them? Or the Mahdi Army, which made the Iraq occupation untenable with weapons that could be improvised with materials found in any Home Depot? Or Al Qaeda, where a tiny handful of fighters rope-a-doped us into trillions of dollars in losses and thousands of casualties with absolutely nothing to show for either? All of the weapons you mention exist at the tip of a very long, meandering spear. They all depend on a brittle logistics chain that is no stronger than its weakest link. Any attempt to use any of those weapons against US citizens would end very badly for the military or political leaders behind it. That's not something that can be said about most countries, and our Second Amendment is a key reason why it's true here.
mylittlepony 14y ago
Then why don't you stand up and recover your right to not being detained indefinitely without a fair trial, your right to move freely around the country without being asked for ID, your right to privacy, to mention a few? All those rights have been taken away by the government and you did nothing.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  Because then we would be accused of being a bunch of trigger-happy cowboys who resort to armed revolt at the slightest provocation?