5 ms·

The Vatican-Anthropic relationship that's reshaping the AI ethics debate

21 points by cdrnsf 5mo ago

turtleyacht 5mo ago
Culture Hacks (2019) compares Eastern and Western cultures, the mode of thinking about the world and general perspectives. Religion, truth, and time are interpreted differently between them. Western thinking considers absolutes, right & wrong, black & white. Eastern thinking considers truth relative and time cyclical. Of all the books that could be scraped, wonder if any translations from other philosophies or sources could have (or had) an impact (or not) on the process. Will certain flavors or profiles of ethics exist, or a kind of poly-ethics?
- mgh2 5mo ago
  > Western thinking considers absolutes, right & wrong, black & white. Eastern thinking considers truth relative and time cyclical. Western culture is more direct and straightforward, while Eastern is the opposite. "Face saving, excuses, bs, white lies, hypocrisy, beating around the bush, etc." are all under the umbrella of lies in the West, not in the East. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes" - Mark Twain Extrapolated resources: [1] https://www.bible.com/bible/105/MAT.5.37.NCV https://www.bible.com/bible/105/MAT.5.37.NCV [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrEZwe1nbBU&t=226s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrEZwe1nbBU&t=226s [3] https://www.instagram.com/reels/DYePOH_ypzb/ https://www.instagram.com/reels/DYePOH_ypzb/ [4] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14142060/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_rental%20family https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14142060/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_...
  - rf15 5mo ago
    which is funny because I learned the worst kind of "subtle lie" from the west: establishing a favorable interpretation as fact before others have the time to think about an event or circumstance critically and from multiple angles. Because a lot of people don't ask followup questions if you give them An Answer right away.
    - mgh2 5mo ago
      That is just lazy thinking, exploiting a cognitive bias.
  - watwut 5mo ago
    > "Face saving, excuses, bs, white lies, hypocrisy, beating around the bush, etc." are all under the umbrella of lies in the West, not in the East. Maybe they are in the umbrella of lies in real of philosophy, but western culture does not see them as a bad thing. West goes out of its way to defend outright lies as long as they are made to help business get money or get more power in politics. West lives in post-truth world where truth does not matter at all and ability to lie is rewarded. And those who made it happen are getting more powerful, riches, even winning elections and are praised for their ability to convince people that lies are true.
    - mgh2 5mo ago
      Yes, the fabric of society is breaking down, with technology accelerating it: https://medium.com/@trendguardian/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e https://medium.com/@trendguardian/why-we-are-dispensable-7a5...
- merelydev 5mo ago
  As it relates to religion, the West prays and the East meditates. Praying is to look outside of oneself, meditating is to look inside. This might explain the difference in source of truth.
  - TFNA 5mo ago
    This is too pat a description. While Buddhism began as a religion of meditation, for centuries Buddhist practice in various parts of Asia has been to pray to an outside figure like Amitabha in the Pure Land or Avalokitesvara. Buddhist teachers who have suggested reviving meditation have faced some resistance from their societies. And of course Japan's indigenous religion(s) have always been about venerating spirits, not looking within.
    - merelydev 5mo ago
      Thank you, for the clarification.
    - keybored 5mo ago
      They didn’t single out Buddhism.
      - TFNA 5mo ago
        Buddhism is the largest religion in the continent they mentioned alongside Hinduism. And Hinduism, too, is majoritywise a religion of prayer to deities treated as external, while its contemplative traditions are the domain of a relative few.
        keybored 5mo ago
        Wikipedia tells me that Hinduism is about 40% larger than Buddhism. Also associated with meditation, and predating Buddhism. > Buddhism is the largest religion in the continent It also says that Islam is the largest religion in Asia.
        5mo ago
andrewstuart 5mo ago
The idea that church - and the Catholic Church at that - has any sort of special relationship to ethics is fucking weird. It’s such a weird idea it feels like pure theater. In fact it is such a strange concept that it indicates that Anthropic has not the slightest genuine internal concept of what ethics is really about. “We need ethics, let’s partner with the church” is cartoonish in its foolishness.
- snayan 5mo ago
  Did you read the encyclical? It's quite the grounded take on AI and the ethics around it.
- applicative 5mo ago
  If you advance any ethical propositions at all it will be very easy to prove that they are mediated by Christian history in its orthodox forms. This holds even of ethics under Islam which is latently derived from orthodox Christianity in its origin matrix. It cannot be escaped without spectacular 'antimoral' radicalism, as Nietzsche spent his life proving in a hundred ways. It is different in the civilizations of the 'dharmic traditions', as people sometimes frame the distinction. An easy way of seeing part way into this is to note that the ethical complaints we make against the church as institution are all founded on principles explicitly taught by the same church.
  - TFNA 5mo ago
    How are Islam's ethics derived from orthodox Christianity specifically? Muhammad's only likely encounter with Christianity was with Nestorianism, i.e. not orthodox.
  - constantius 5mo ago
    If you mean that the Church has incorporated ethical systems into its teachings, then I'd agree, but it would also be true of any other religion. But if you mean that ethics came from orthodox Christianity, or is predicated on the existence of Christ, I'd have to ask to elaborate, though I'm sure I misunderstand. Virtue ethics were developed by Plato, arguably Kantian and utilitarian systems attenpt to come to ethics through reason and don't mention religion.
qsxfthnkp2322 5mo ago
Anthropic needs to turn to religion to make it back into the good graces of the pentagon. Hahaha. Hurry pass around the donation tray, Dario must need it.

21 points by cdrnsf 5mo ago

Culture Hacks (2019) compares Eastern and Western cultures, the mode of thinking about the world and general perspectives. Religion, truth, and time are interpreted differently between them. Western thinking considers absolutes, right & wrong, black & white. Eastern thinking considers truth relative and time cyclical. Of all the books that could be scraped, wonder if any translations from other philosophies or sources could have (or had) an impact (or not) on the process. Will certain flavors or profiles of ethics exist, or a kind of poly-ethics?

mgh2 5mo ago
> Western thinking considers absolutes, right & wrong, black & white. Eastern thinking considers truth relative and time cyclical. Western culture is more direct and straightforward, while Eastern is the opposite. "Face saving, excuses, bs, white lies, hypocrisy, beating around the bush, etc." are all under the umbrella of lies in the West, not in the East. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes" - Mark Twain Extrapolated resources: [1] https://www.bible.com/bible/105/MAT.5.37.NCV https://www.bible.com/bible/105/MAT.5.37.NCV [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrEZwe1nbBU&t=226s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrEZwe1nbBU&t=226s [3] https://www.instagram.com/reels/DYePOH_ypzb/ https://www.instagram.com/reels/DYePOH_ypzb/ [4] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14142060/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_rental%20family https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14142060/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_...
- rf15 5mo ago
  which is funny because I learned the worst kind of "subtle lie" from the west: establishing a favorable interpretation as fact before others have the time to think about an event or circumstance critically and from multiple angles. Because a lot of people don't ask followup questions if you give them An Answer right away.
  - mgh2 5mo ago
    That is just lazy thinking, exploiting a cognitive bias.
- watwut 5mo ago
  > "Face saving, excuses, bs, white lies, hypocrisy, beating around the bush, etc." are all under the umbrella of lies in the West, not in the East. Maybe they are in the umbrella of lies in real of philosophy, but western culture does not see them as a bad thing. West goes out of its way to defend outright lies as long as they are made to help business get money or get more power in politics. West lives in post-truth world where truth does not matter at all and ability to lie is rewarded. And those who made it happen are getting more powerful, riches, even winning elections and are praised for their ability to convince people that lies are true.
  - mgh2 5mo ago
    Yes, the fabric of society is breaking down, with technology accelerating it: https://medium.com/@trendguardian/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e https://medium.com/@trendguardian/why-we-are-dispensable-7a5...
merelydev 5mo ago
As it relates to religion, the West prays and the East meditates. Praying is to look outside of oneself, meditating is to look inside. This might explain the difference in source of truth.
- TFNA 5mo ago
  This is too pat a description. While Buddhism began as a religion of meditation, for centuries Buddhist practice in various parts of Asia has been to pray to an outside figure like Amitabha in the Pure Land or Avalokitesvara. Buddhist teachers who have suggested reviving meditation have faced some resistance from their societies. And of course Japan's indigenous religion(s) have always been about venerating spirits, not looking within.
  - merelydev 5mo ago
    Thank you, for the clarification.
  - keybored 5mo ago
    They didn’t single out Buddhism.
    - TFNA 5mo ago
      Buddhism is the largest religion in the continent they mentioned alongside Hinduism. And Hinduism, too, is majoritywise a religion of prayer to deities treated as external, while its contemplative traditions are the domain of a relative few.
      - keybored 5mo ago
        Wikipedia tells me that Hinduism is about 40% larger than Buddhism. Also associated with meditation, and predating Buddhism. > Buddhism is the largest religion in the continent It also says that Islam is the largest religion in Asia.
        5mo ago

andrewstuart 5mo ago

The idea that church - and the Catholic Church at that - has any sort of special relationship to ethics is fucking weird. It’s such a weird idea it feels like pure theater. In fact it is such a strange concept that it indicates that Anthropic has not the slightest genuine internal concept of what ethics is really about. “We need ethics, let’s partner with the church” is cartoonish in its foolishness.

snayan 5mo ago
Did you read the encyclical? It's quite the grounded take on AI and the ethics around it.
applicative 5mo ago
If you advance any ethical propositions at all it will be very easy to prove that they are mediated by Christian history in its orthodox forms. This holds even of ethics under Islam which is latently derived from orthodox Christianity in its origin matrix. It cannot be escaped without spectacular 'antimoral' radicalism, as Nietzsche spent his life proving in a hundred ways. It is different in the civilizations of the 'dharmic traditions', as people sometimes frame the distinction. An easy way of seeing part way into this is to note that the ethical complaints we make against the church as institution are all founded on principles explicitly taught by the same church.
- TFNA 5mo ago
  How are Islam's ethics derived from orthodox Christianity specifically? Muhammad's only likely encounter with Christianity was with Nestorianism, i.e. not orthodox.
- constantius 5mo ago
  If you mean that the Church has incorporated ethical systems into its teachings, then I'd agree, but it would also be true of any other religion. But if you mean that ethics came from orthodox Christianity, or is predicated on the existence of Christ, I'd have to ask to elaborate, though I'm sure I misunderstand. Virtue ethics were developed by Plato, arguably Kantian and utilitarian systems attenpt to come to ethics through reason and don't mention religion.

qsxfthnkp2322 5mo ago

Anthropic needs to turn to religion to make it back into the good graces of the pentagon. Hahaha. Hurry pass around the donation tray, Dario must need it.