3 ms·

The media and the scientific community are not set up for the situation where cranks with absurdly unscientific views are at the top of the major scientific and

The media and the scientific community are not set up for the situation where cranks with absurdly unscientific views are at the top of the major scientific and health authorities. RFK Jr. still gets too much benefit of the doubt for his initiatives when it is obvious that he is opposed to science and has views about health that are just outright dangerous. And we have the usual problem with this administration that there are so many different dangerous things happening that it's hard to concentrate efforts on fighting them. It got a bit quieter, probably due to some internal pushback, but RFK Jr. is still working on dismantling the US vaccination programs. And similar to the seed oil panic in the article, all the demonization of vaccines will result in a terrible price that some children will pay in the future.

DoctorOetker 5mo ago
[flagged]
- fabian2k 5mo ago
  Modern medicine saves lives. Of course natural selection doesn't fully apply anymore in our society. But you're suggesting that letting children die from preventable diseases is a bad thing. It's not.
  - DoctorOetker 5mo ago
    > Of course natural selection doesn't fully apply anymore in our society. It doesn't matter how authoritatively you state it, but wanting it not to matter is not the same as it not applying. It still applies modulo some distortion by "egalitarian healthcare". Every time you have a cold or whatever is a moment you are statistically less likely to reproduce. When a potential mate approaches you but sneezes all over itself, it has an influence on your attraction towards this mate. If only things were so simple as state them in a voice of authority... Is it in the interest of the group, and of future children that they inherit deficiencies at higher rates simply because we apply healthcare? What exactly is "civilized" about our healthcare behavior?
- hombre_fatal 5mo ago
  So what? Technology gives us free lunch after free lunch. And in the not so distant future we can just gene-edit our offspring, the ultimate free lunch.
  - DoctorOetker 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - tomhow 5mo ago
      This kind of comment is unwelcome on HN. Do not comment like this here. The notion that we should withhold medical care for the sake of genetic fitness of future generations is vile, no matter how much it's dressed up to seem scientifically valid. Please take some time to read all the HN guidelines and make an effort to observe them if you want to participate here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - DoctorOetker 5mo ago
        Are you a visitor or a maintainer at HN? Triage or comparative loss is frequently applied in medical circles. Extending the concept of triage across generations is villified? Every triage involves loss and denying medical care, not talking about it doesn't make it cleaner. To improve triage outcomes, people must be able to discuss and argue triage decisions, that necessarily involves arguing effectively against certain care. If this platform must serve as a safe space for the feeble minded, I could consider exiting it, if the maintainers insist triage becomes a taboo subject.
ungreased0675 5mo ago
The reason RFK resonated with people is because the highly credentialed experts were not producing favorable outcomes. Results have to matter, right? We’ll see how successful (or not) RFK’s policies are, but let’s not revise history to where things were great right before he came in and ruined everything.
- rsynnott 5mo ago
  “We told people what not to eat based on the research, and they ignored us, so instead we should tell them what not to eat based on the ravings of random podcasters” is not a reasonable approach. There are approaches which seem to work (some combination of taxation, advertising bans, and mandatory warnings seems to basically have worked for tobacco, say), but they’d obviously be extremely unpalatable to industry. And they’re painfully slow; took decades for tobacco.

DoctorOetker 5mo ago

[flagged]

fabian2k 5mo ago
Modern medicine saves lives. Of course natural selection doesn't fully apply anymore in our society. But you're suggesting that letting children die from preventable diseases is a bad thing. It's not.
- DoctorOetker 5mo ago
  > Of course natural selection doesn't fully apply anymore in our society. It doesn't matter how authoritatively you state it, but wanting it not to matter is not the same as it not applying. It still applies modulo some distortion by "egalitarian healthcare". Every time you have a cold or whatever is a moment you are statistically less likely to reproduce. When a potential mate approaches you but sneezes all over itself, it has an influence on your attraction towards this mate. If only things were so simple as state them in a voice of authority... Is it in the interest of the group, and of future children that they inherit deficiencies at higher rates simply because we apply healthcare? What exactly is "civilized" about our healthcare behavior?
hombre_fatal 5mo ago
So what? Technology gives us free lunch after free lunch. And in the not so distant future we can just gene-edit our offspring, the ultimate free lunch.
- DoctorOetker 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - tomhow 5mo ago
    This kind of comment is unwelcome on HN. Do not comment like this here. The notion that we should withhold medical care for the sake of genetic fitness of future generations is vile, no matter how much it's dressed up to seem scientifically valid. Please take some time to read all the HN guidelines and make an effort to observe them if you want to participate here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - DoctorOetker 5mo ago
      Are you a visitor or a maintainer at HN? Triage or comparative loss is frequently applied in medical circles. Extending the concept of triage across generations is villified? Every triage involves loss and denying medical care, not talking about it doesn't make it cleaner. To improve triage outcomes, people must be able to discuss and argue triage decisions, that necessarily involves arguing effectively against certain care. If this platform must serve as a safe space for the feeble minded, I could consider exiting it, if the maintainers insist triage becomes a taboo subject.

ungreased0675 5mo ago

The reason RFK resonated with people is because the highly credentialed experts were not producing favorable outcomes. Results have to matter, right? We’ll see how successful (or not) RFK’s policies are, but let’s not revise history to where things were great right before he came in and ruined everything.

rsynnott 5mo ago
“We told people what not to eat based on the research, and they ignored us, so instead we should tell them what not to eat based on the ravings of random podcasters” is not a reasonable approach. There are approaches which seem to work (some combination of taxation, advertising bans, and mandatory warnings seems to basically have worked for tobacco, say), but they’d obviously be extremely unpalatable to industry. And they’re painfully slow; took decades for tobacco.