3 ms·

It is questionable if US has the education system or people capital to support all the science based sectors it has IMO. Immigrants doing a very large portion

It is questionable if US has the education system or people capital to support all the science based sectors it has IMO. Immigrants doing a very large portion of tech work can't be just because they get paid less

hunterpayne 5mo ago
"Immigrants doing a very large portion of tech work can't be just because they get paid less" It is solely about that. Remember, immigrants didn't really play a role in the US tech industry for half of its existence and didn't play a major role until a decade ago. This is despite the fact that US colleges openly and actively discriminate against US citizens for grad school spots for 2 or 3 decades now.
- dukeyukey 5mo ago
  > and didn't play a major role until a decade ago Sergey Brin? Paul Graham? Elon Musk?
- mlnj 5mo ago
  >US colleges openly and actively discriminate against US citizens for grad school spots for 2 or 3 decades now. Isn't this just because foreign students pay more than citizens? Isn't this just capitalism and the free market efficiently allocating resources? Something about 'having the cake and eating it too'.
  - jakeydus 5mo ago
    Not just that, universities (especially smaller research universities) love having grad students whose research is paid for. China, Saudi Arabia, Brazil (less so now than in the past), Qatar, and others have all had programs for years where they paid the tuition and research costs of students at universities. Why would the university not pick that over a local kid who the university has to pay for out of their own coffers?
    - bonsai_spool 5mo ago
      > Not just that, universities (especially smaller research universities) love having grad students whose research is paid for. > Why would the university not pick that over a local kid who the university has to pay for out of their own coffers? Universities don't pay for research - and departments usually don't pay for research either. At the margin, a professor will prefer someone who has her own funding, but that person also needs to be competent, so I doubt the national schemes you are citing have made an impact on who gets into graduate school.
  - gottorf 5mo ago
    To be fair, not many parts of the US higher education system can be accurately described as free markets or capitalism.
- ModernMech 5mo ago
  > This is despite the fact that US colleges openly and actively discriminate against US citizens for grad school spots for 2 or 3 decades now. Can you provide a citation for this specific claim? I used to do admissions to a grad program in the US, and we ended up admitting mostly foreign students soley because very few US citizens actually applied (probably only 10% of apps). Whether that's because they were not qualified or couldn't afford it I do not know. But it's not because they were openly and actively discriminated against.
- convolvatron 5mo ago
  I've been involved in .. applied CS for 40 years, and the industry has been filled with people of a wide variety of backgrounds for that entire time. Even during the time I worked for the US DOD many of the people I worked were international.
- ytoawwhra92 5mo ago
  > Remember, immigrants didn't really play a role in the US tech industry for half of its existence and didn't play a major role until a decade ago. Bell, Wang, Fairchild, Intel, Sun...

hunterpayne 5mo ago

"Immigrants doing a very large portion of tech work can't be just because they get paid less" It is solely about that. Remember, immigrants didn't really play a role in the US tech industry for half of its existence and didn't play a major role until a decade ago. This is despite the fact that US colleges openly and actively discriminate against US citizens for grad school spots for 2 or 3 decades now.

dukeyukey 5mo ago
> and didn't play a major role until a decade ago Sergey Brin? Paul Graham? Elon Musk?
mlnj 5mo ago
>US colleges openly and actively discriminate against US citizens for grad school spots for 2 or 3 decades now. Isn't this just because foreign students pay more than citizens? Isn't this just capitalism and the free market efficiently allocating resources? Something about 'having the cake and eating it too'.
- jakeydus 5mo ago
  Not just that, universities (especially smaller research universities) love having grad students whose research is paid for. China, Saudi Arabia, Brazil (less so now than in the past), Qatar, and others have all had programs for years where they paid the tuition and research costs of students at universities. Why would the university not pick that over a local kid who the university has to pay for out of their own coffers?
  - bonsai_spool 5mo ago
    > Not just that, universities (especially smaller research universities) love having grad students whose research is paid for. > Why would the university not pick that over a local kid who the university has to pay for out of their own coffers? Universities don't pay for research - and departments usually don't pay for research either. At the margin, a professor will prefer someone who has her own funding, but that person also needs to be competent, so I doubt the national schemes you are citing have made an impact on who gets into graduate school.
- gottorf 5mo ago
  To be fair, not many parts of the US higher education system can be accurately described as free markets or capitalism.
ModernMech 5mo ago
> This is despite the fact that US colleges openly and actively discriminate against US citizens for grad school spots for 2 or 3 decades now. Can you provide a citation for this specific claim? I used to do admissions to a grad program in the US, and we ended up admitting mostly foreign students soley because very few US citizens actually applied (probably only 10% of apps). Whether that's because they were not qualified or couldn't afford it I do not know. But it's not because they were openly and actively discriminated against.
convolvatron 5mo ago
I've been involved in .. applied CS for 40 years, and the industry has been filled with people of a wide variety of backgrounds for that entire time. Even during the time I worked for the US DOD many of the people I worked were international.
ytoawwhra92 5mo ago
> Remember, immigrants didn't really play a role in the US tech industry for half of its existence and didn't play a major role until a decade ago. Bell, Wang, Fairchild, Intel, Sun...