4 ms·

That's the number one rule though. If someone calls you claiming to be your bank, just say "I'll call you back"

by 4ndrewl 5mo ago

smcin 5mo ago
Ask them their name/ last initial, employee ID or unique identifier for the conversation, direct phone number, job title and what location they're based at. Scammers will pretty much always refuse/argue/hang up on this (once I had one start insulting my mother in Hindi when I asked him this). Then call your bank's proper number and verify all of these details. (But in any case your bank will never call outwards to you, unless you've specifically requested that, which you almost never do.)
- DamonHD 5mo ago
  Unfortunately my UK banks (and others) DO regularly make calls to me unannounced and demand my ID to 'prove who I am'. They are not scam calls and the callers cannot understand what they are doing wrong. If I'd had more strength in the last round of this stupidity I'd have done a number on them with the regulator. (I used to work in finance and was the director of a regulated financial entity, so I think I'd have a head start.)
  - Cider9986 5mo ago
    Yeah and people call crypto a scam. It mostly is, but Monero is pretty good.
  - cuteboy19 5mo ago
    it is time we have a good industry standard for this stuff
    - lostlogin 5mo ago
      I dream of a time I don’t have a bank, or not in any traditional sense. I’d been hunting for ways to use a Wisecard standoff a bank but got a bit wary of what would happen if they went bust. Government backed guarantee do not exist for Wise.
  - TeMPOraL 5mo ago
    > They are not scam calls What are they, then? Sales/marketing calls? Or some security notifications ("we noticed some suspicious operations in the last 3 days...")? If it's the former, that's still scam in my books. Specifically, it's a first-party scam, as opposed to a third-party scam, where some third party pretends to be your bank. They both should be treated similarly; unfortunately, you can't report first-party scams to police.
    - andyclap2 5mo ago
      In my experience they're security calls. UK has good opt out marketing rules for legit companies. But the usual security call is exactly like a spam call, no authentication from their end, immediately requesting id verification "answer these security questions", and refusing to go off script. People have been asking for years to be able to lodge a security challenge code on their profile that can add confidence in the caller. Given there are already multiple security questions on an account, this could be a process change: the security challenge script becomes "the first and sixteenth characters of your mother's maiden name are 7 and F, what are the third and fifth characters of your first pets name".
      - arthurfm 5mo ago
        In the UK, banks like Starling, Monzo and Revolut (and building societies such as Nationwide) have added a call status feature in their apps [0][1][2] that tells you if they are actually the ones calling. [0] https://www.starlingbank.com/news/starling-bank-launches-in-app-tool-to-combat-bank-impersonation/ https://www.starlingbank.com/news/starling-bank-launches-in-... [1] https://monzo.com/help/monzo-fraud-category/monzo-call-status-web https://monzo.com/help/monzo-fraud-category/monzo-call-statu... [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/articles/c1mj02vr0emo https://www.bbc.co.uk/articles/c1mj02vr0emo
        Ntrails 5mo ago
        Yeah, this is a no brainer (and I think most banks let you verify via the app rather than personal info) to avoid the annoying uncertainty (but note my mother would not be able to handle that I expect)
  - smcin 5mo ago
    In the US Caller ID has been so hopelessly compromised (for almost two decades now, that's on Congress) that financial institutions almost never make outbound calls, and only ever use standardized published numbers; I wasn't aware other countries differ so much. Please tell us more context with regard to your UK banks making multiple unannounced calls demanding your ID ... were you an individual customer? finance director? MD? or what? Why on earth do they do that? Have you told them in writing not to? There must be more backstory to that.
    - DamonHD 5mo ago
      Banking example: trying to move some savings from one UK bank to another - back to where the money had originally come from, and that had just purchased the first bank too. It took 8h on the phone over a week or so to get the money back, which was interspersed with a comedic number of calls from withheld numbers and people unknown to me demanding enough info to get access to my money. And other very poor practice. The bank even conceeded at least once in writing that it knew that it was screwing up and sent me £100 by way of apology - but carried right on screwing up. Non-banking: getting a call out of the blue from my Internet Service Provider again demanding enough credentials to get access to my (business) account, and unable to understand why that was very poor practice. I used to like that ISP a lot, and have been with it for a looooooong time, but the angry exchange with who seems to have been my account manager has soured the relationship a lot.
      - DamonHD 5mo ago
        Happy note: just had a sensible interaction with my bank where it called me back but the caller understood why NOT to ask data that could be used to access my account, and we managed to resolve the issue that I was having (which, I think, was my error)!
    - somewhatgoated 5mo ago
      My bank(s) have never called me and if they did I wouldn’t pick up - it’s definitely not a standard in the EU.
  - emmelaich 5mo ago
    Same in Australia, I've had genuine calls from a bank asking for my security code for identification purposes.
- zymhan 5mo ago
  That is an unnecessary interrogation, you don't need to verify the initial call at all. Simply call your bank on your own.
- thrownthatway 5mo ago
  I ask them for all of that and their credit card details, mothers maiden name, name of their first pet, first school they went to, and what colour underwear they’re wearing. I should probably learn how to insult their mother in Hindi too.
jack1142 5mo ago
Nowadays, when banks call you here, they allow you to verify the bank is actually calling you with the mobile app - you can see their name and number they're calling you from in the app. Also, you can often verify you're you with the app too, same as any other app authorization, so you don't have to share any details over the phone. I feel like this is a pretty good improvement.
- SoftTalker 5mo ago
  That does seem better than blind trust but that app infrastructure could get compromised. I would still be wary in any situation where I did not originate the call with the bank.
  - jack1142 5mo ago
    Ye, I only get called by banks when my transaction gets classified as potentially fraudulent (which pretty much just means that it is for a bigger amount of money) or some other even more rare situations like finishing a loan application. Still, I'd rather be double sure that it is the bank that's calling me because I don't want to assume solely based on the convenient timing. If the app infrastructure is compromised, the bank is liable so it feels like less of a problem. If the app does offer authorizing through the app, I shouldn't be asked any personal details that my bank already knows so I (hopefully) would still be wary, if put in such a situation though. Obviously hard to know what I'd actually do unless it actually happens to me.
Hikikomori 5mo ago
We have an app called bankid. If my bank calls me they'll ask me to open the app to auth, the app shows that the specific bank initiated auth and also says that they called me. Same app is used to auth to government pages and all kinds of stuff online, even purchases.
anonzzzies 5mo ago
Or, which has worked great for me; just never answer the phone. If people need something they will email or chat. If not then it is not going to be important.
- cucumber3732842 5mo ago
  This. If people have a "real" reason to correspond with you they will have no problem making a record of it via a voicemail or text or email or whatever.
  - dylan604 5mo ago
    I've had friends that got into a spot of bother and tried calling from an unknown number. If it's a phone you can't text from, then leaving a voice mail with voice transcription is about the only way I'll know it's a friendly call

That's the number one rule though. If someone calls you claiming to be your bank, just say "I'll call you back"

by 4ndrewl 5mo ago

That's the number one rule though. If someone calls you claiming to be your bank, just say "I'll call you back"

smcin 5mo ago

Ask them their name/ last initial, employee ID or unique identifier for the conversation, direct phone number, job title and what location they're based at. Scammers will pretty much always refuse/argue/hang up on this (once I had one start insulting my mother in Hindi when I asked him this). Then call your bank's proper number and verify all of these details. (But in any case your bank will never call outwards to you, unless you've specifically requested that, which you almost never do.)

DamonHD 5mo ago
Unfortunately my UK banks (and others) DO regularly make calls to me unannounced and demand my ID to 'prove who I am'. They are not scam calls and the callers cannot understand what they are doing wrong. If I'd had more strength in the last round of this stupidity I'd have done a number on them with the regulator. (I used to work in finance and was the director of a regulated financial entity, so I think I'd have a head start.)
- Cider9986 5mo ago
  Yeah and people call crypto a scam. It mostly is, but Monero is pretty good.
- cuteboy19 5mo ago
  it is time we have a good industry standard for this stuff
  - lostlogin 5mo ago
    I dream of a time I don’t have a bank, or not in any traditional sense. I’d been hunting for ways to use a Wisecard standoff a bank but got a bit wary of what would happen if they went bust. Government backed guarantee do not exist for Wise.
- TeMPOraL 5mo ago
  > They are not scam calls What are they, then? Sales/marketing calls? Or some security notifications ("we noticed some suspicious operations in the last 3 days...")? If it's the former, that's still scam in my books. Specifically, it's a first-party scam, as opposed to a third-party scam, where some third party pretends to be your bank. They both should be treated similarly; unfortunately, you can't report first-party scams to police.
  - andyclap2 5mo ago
    In my experience they're security calls. UK has good opt out marketing rules for legit companies. But the usual security call is exactly like a spam call, no authentication from their end, immediately requesting id verification "answer these security questions", and refusing to go off script. People have been asking for years to be able to lodge a security challenge code on their profile that can add confidence in the caller. Given there are already multiple security questions on an account, this could be a process change: the security challenge script becomes "the first and sixteenth characters of your mother's maiden name are 7 and F, what are the third and fifth characters of your first pets name".
    - arthurfm 5mo ago
      In the UK, banks like Starling, Monzo and Revolut (and building societies such as Nationwide) have added a call status feature in their apps [0][1][2] that tells you if they are actually the ones calling. [0] https://www.starlingbank.com/news/starling-bank-launches-in-app-tool-to-combat-bank-impersonation/ https://www.starlingbank.com/news/starling-bank-launches-in-... [1] https://monzo.com/help/monzo-fraud-category/monzo-call-status-web https://monzo.com/help/monzo-fraud-category/monzo-call-statu... [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/articles/c1mj02vr0emo https://www.bbc.co.uk/articles/c1mj02vr0emo
      - Ntrails 5mo ago
        Yeah, this is a no brainer (and I think most banks let you verify via the app rather than personal info) to avoid the annoying uncertainty (but note my mother would not be able to handle that I expect)
- smcin 5mo ago
  In the US Caller ID has been so hopelessly compromised (for almost two decades now, that's on Congress) that financial institutions almost never make outbound calls, and only ever use standardized published numbers; I wasn't aware other countries differ so much. Please tell us more context with regard to your UK banks making multiple unannounced calls demanding your ID ... were you an individual customer? finance director? MD? or what? Why on earth do they do that? Have you told them in writing not to? There must be more backstory to that.
  - DamonHD 5mo ago
    Banking example: trying to move some savings from one UK bank to another - back to where the money had originally come from, and that had just purchased the first bank too. It took 8h on the phone over a week or so to get the money back, which was interspersed with a comedic number of calls from withheld numbers and people unknown to me demanding enough info to get access to my money. And other very poor practice. The bank even conceeded at least once in writing that it knew that it was screwing up and sent me £100 by way of apology - but carried right on screwing up. Non-banking: getting a call out of the blue from my Internet Service Provider again demanding enough credentials to get access to my (business) account, and unable to understand why that was very poor practice. I used to like that ISP a lot, and have been with it for a looooooong time, but the angry exchange with who seems to have been my account manager has soured the relationship a lot.
    - DamonHD 5mo ago
      Happy note: just had a sensible interaction with my bank where it called me back but the caller understood why NOT to ask data that could be used to access my account, and we managed to resolve the issue that I was having (which, I think, was my error)!
  - somewhatgoated 5mo ago
    My bank(s) have never called me and if they did I wouldn’t pick up - it’s definitely not a standard in the EU.
- emmelaich 5mo ago
  Same in Australia, I've had genuine calls from a bank asking for my security code for identification purposes.
zymhan 5mo ago
That is an unnecessary interrogation, you don't need to verify the initial call at all. Simply call your bank on your own.
thrownthatway 5mo ago
I ask them for all of that and their credit card details, mothers maiden name, name of their first pet, first school they went to, and what colour underwear they’re wearing. I should probably learn how to insult their mother in Hindi too.

jack1142 5mo ago

Nowadays, when banks call you here, they allow you to verify the bank is actually calling you with the mobile app - you can see their name and number they're calling you from in the app. Also, you can often verify you're you with the app too, same as any other app authorization, so you don't have to share any details over the phone. I feel like this is a pretty good improvement.

SoftTalker 5mo ago
That does seem better than blind trust but that app infrastructure could get compromised. I would still be wary in any situation where I did not originate the call with the bank.
- jack1142 5mo ago
  Ye, I only get called by banks when my transaction gets classified as potentially fraudulent (which pretty much just means that it is for a bigger amount of money) or some other even more rare situations like finishing a loan application. Still, I'd rather be double sure that it is the bank that's calling me because I don't want to assume solely based on the convenient timing. If the app infrastructure is compromised, the bank is liable so it feels like less of a problem. If the app does offer authorizing through the app, I shouldn't be asked any personal details that my bank already knows so I (hopefully) would still be wary, if put in such a situation though. Obviously hard to know what I'd actually do unless it actually happens to me.

Hikikomori 5mo ago

We have an app called bankid. If my bank calls me they'll ask me to open the app to auth, the app shows that the specific bank initiated auth and also says that they called me. Same app is used to auth to government pages and all kinds of stuff online, even purchases.

anonzzzies 5mo ago

Or, which has worked great for me; just never answer the phone. If people need something they will email or chat. If not then it is not going to be important.

cucumber3732842 5mo ago
This. If people have a "real" reason to correspond with you they will have no problem making a record of it via a voicemail or text or email or whatever.
- dylan604 5mo ago
  I've had friends that got into a spot of bother and tried calling from an unknown number. If it's a phone you can't text from, then leaving a voice mail with voice transcription is about the only way I'll know it's a friendly call