8 ms·

How are they supposed to assimilate if they have to leave the country to apply?

knollimar 4mo ago
clearly in detention centers
rayiner 4mo ago
It slows down the flow, which facilitates assimilation of the smaller pool people who go through the process. You’re much more likely to assimilate if you’re not living in a place with thousands of other people from your origin country.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- dwa3592 4mo ago
  Define assimilation please! - i started watching football with my american friends - i studied the american political system enough to have educated discussions about it - i caught healthcare fraud at federal level which was mainly hurting very old americans. - i started doing barbeque - i started going out on the weekend - i tip heavily what i don't do: eat at drive throughs, buy stuff that i don't need, guns etc. I still carry a chip on my shoulder and worry about ICE just detaining me for no reason. "They don't assimilate" is just a cover for "They don't look and talk like us".
  - UncleOxidant 4mo ago
    Ok, but do you eat peanut butter and drink root beer - those are the sure signs of full assimilation.
    - throwaway173738 4mo ago
      Sorry where I come from we drink peanut butter and eat roots are we still American?
  - rayiner 4mo ago
    The things you’re describing are superficial. My wife’s dad is a Japanophile and she grew up eating sushi, etc. That doesn’t make her Japanese. Assimilation is about how you think and what you value. It’s not just knowing about the American political system, but understanding and embracing the values and worldview that created it.
    - sersi 4mo ago
      And how much does the Trump administration understand and embrace the values and worldview that created the American political system. How much do they agree with the Founding Fathers? ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.’?
      - rayiner 4mo ago
        Honestly, not very well. Trump is from an immigrant background. He doesn’t talk like an American (unlike Obama or Bush or Clinton). The American right these days is filled with people from recent immigrant ancestry whose understanding of American values is something of an impersonation of the real thing. The founder’s America ceased to exist at the national level with the election of FDR.
        selimthegrim 4mo ago
        FDR was quite blue-blooded himself.
        pstuart 4mo ago
        Was that "Rose-uh-velt" or "Roos-uh-velt"?
    - yulker 4mo ago
      Go ahead and tell us what it means to be a real American then
      - 4mo ago
  - Fnoord 4mo ago
    Honestly, it is pure hatred and plain stupidity. They don't have the same religion, customs, values, history, etc. Assimilation takes generations, and the point of integration is that some of their culture is retained. That is how you get pizza snd maffia to New York (to name two random examples), or how languages evolve. For example, I am from Amsterdam area. The culture there was heavily influenced by Jewish diaspora, and the dialect by Yiddish and Bargoens. The street language nowadays is a mish-mash of English, Jewish, and Arabian culture, as well as that which influenced Dutch language before (mainly English, German, French, Latin, Greek, and I am probably forgetting to mention some). Some parts of our culture are still artifacts from past, we just take them for granted. Last name for example, was introduced by Napoleon. The Austria-Hungarians had influence on the south, and religiously the Catholics are mainly from south (as well as entire Belgium) with the North (above the rivers) being rather Protestants. Language-wise, Belgium's history of three languages is of interest, you could say the same about Switzerland. I wouldn't call USA solely English-speaking either. Heck, just look at the names of places around SV. Also, would you tip if the food was terrible? I wouldn't. They should be happy I paid (my wife before I knew her once had soup so salty, she send back to kitchen. Chef said was normal. They didn't resolve, yet the soup was on the bill. She and her friends just left). My recommendation to you? Well, I am not from USA but been in Cali a couple of times. Pivot to people who accept you for who you are. Don't hide where you're coming from, use it to empower you instead.
    - rayiner 4mo ago
      I feel like we agree on a lot so I don’t get your conclusion. > They don't have the same religion, customs, values, history, etc. Correct. But why is it “hatred” for people to not want immigrants to bring foreign customs and values with them? Customs and values are substantive! The customs and values of people around you affect your life, especially in a democracy where those people get to vote on the laws that govern you. > Assimilation takes generations Correct! You and Stephen Miller are on the same page about that. > That is how you get pizza snd maffia to New York (to name two random examples) Correct again! Why is it “hatred” and “stupidity” if you think the pizza wasn’t worth the mafia? > For example, I am from Amsterdam area My hypothesis is that New York City would be cleaner, more polite, better governed, and more orderly if it was still New Amsterdam. But the food would be crap. Do you disagree?
  - georgemcbay 4mo ago
    > - i started watching football with my american friends And I'd assume and hope parts of your native culture rubbed off on your American friends. As someone whose ancestors have been American for quite a while (1850s) I can't make sense of the idea espoused by some on this thread* that "American culture" is something that needs to be strongly protected from changing and that's why we need to virtually lock-down immigration. The feature that makes "American culture" powerful is exactly that it assimilates to the people who come here, not that they assimilate to it. * (not you, this is just a convenient jumping off point for me to chime in on)
    - rayiner 4mo ago
      [flagged]
      - georgemcbay 4mo ago
        > But is that true? Massachusetts is one of the most functional states in the country. It is both affluent and prosperous, but also orderly and well governed. What’s a good part of Massachusetts culture that doesn’t come from the original British settlers and their descendants? I spent the first 22 years of my life living in Massachusetts around the Boston area and a lot of my fondest childhood memories center around celebrating multiculturism: St Patrick's day parades in Southie, Saint Anthony's feasts in the North End, August Moon Festival in Chinatown, etc. > Wouldn’t New York City be a better city—cleaner, less corrupt, more orderly—if it was in Massachusetts? I don't think so, I also lived in NYC for a year in 1999 and have visited it many times before and since and found NYC a much more interesting and vibrant place than Massachusetts, though both have their charms.
        rayiner 4mo ago
        > I spent the first 22 years of my life living in Massachusetts around the Boston area and a lot of my fondest childhood memories center around celebrating multiculturism: St Patrick's day parades in Southie, Saint Anthony's feasts in the North End, August Moon Festival in Chinatown, etc. Those are all superficial. Without those cultural influences, Massachusetts would still be basically the same state, just with worse food. > I don't think so, I also lived in NYC for a year in 1999 and have visited it many times before and since and found NYC a much more interesting and vibrant place than Massachusetts, though both have their charms. “Vibrant” is a euphemism for “chaotic and dirty.” Nobody ever says Copenhagen is “vibrant.” Massachusetts is objectively better than New York in almost every way. It has great schools while New York has shit schools, but Massachusetts spends 25% less per student. Massachusetts has much lower corruption, greater state capacity to perform public works, etc. Those are the measures of a place—not whether it is “vibrant” or “interesting.”
rossjudson 4mo ago
Stop with your logic, please. Obviously they must complete American Nationalism training, readily available in whatever country they come from, which they can learn from Voice of America.

clearly in detention centers

It slows down the flow, which facilitates assimilation of the smaller pool people who go through the process. You’re much more likely to assimilate if you’re not living in a place with thousands of other people from your origin country.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
dwa3592 4mo ago
Define assimilation please! - i started watching football with my american friends - i studied the american political system enough to have educated discussions about it - i caught healthcare fraud at federal level which was mainly hurting very old americans. - i started doing barbeque - i started going out on the weekend - i tip heavily what i don't do: eat at drive throughs, buy stuff that i don't need, guns etc. I still carry a chip on my shoulder and worry about ICE just detaining me for no reason. "They don't assimilate" is just a cover for "They don't look and talk like us".
- UncleOxidant 4mo ago
  Ok, but do you eat peanut butter and drink root beer - those are the sure signs of full assimilation.
  - throwaway173738 4mo ago
    Sorry where I come from we drink peanut butter and eat roots are we still American?
- rayiner 4mo ago
  The things you’re describing are superficial. My wife’s dad is a Japanophile and she grew up eating sushi, etc. That doesn’t make her Japanese. Assimilation is about how you think and what you value. It’s not just knowing about the American political system, but understanding and embracing the values and worldview that created it.
  - sersi 4mo ago
    And how much does the Trump administration understand and embrace the values and worldview that created the American political system. How much do they agree with the Founding Fathers? ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.’?
    - rayiner 4mo ago
      Honestly, not very well. Trump is from an immigrant background. He doesn’t talk like an American (unlike Obama or Bush or Clinton). The American right these days is filled with people from recent immigrant ancestry whose understanding of American values is something of an impersonation of the real thing. The founder’s America ceased to exist at the national level with the election of FDR.
      - selimthegrim 4mo ago
        FDR was quite blue-blooded himself.
      - pstuart 4mo ago
        Was that "Rose-uh-velt" or "Roos-uh-velt"?
  - yulker 4mo ago
    Go ahead and tell us what it means to be a real American then
    - 4mo ago
- Fnoord 4mo ago
  Honestly, it is pure hatred and plain stupidity. They don't have the same religion, customs, values, history, etc. Assimilation takes generations, and the point of integration is that some of their culture is retained. That is how you get pizza snd maffia to New York (to name two random examples), or how languages evolve. For example, I am from Amsterdam area. The culture there was heavily influenced by Jewish diaspora, and the dialect by Yiddish and Bargoens. The street language nowadays is a mish-mash of English, Jewish, and Arabian culture, as well as that which influenced Dutch language before (mainly English, German, French, Latin, Greek, and I am probably forgetting to mention some). Some parts of our culture are still artifacts from past, we just take them for granted. Last name for example, was introduced by Napoleon. The Austria-Hungarians had influence on the south, and religiously the Catholics are mainly from south (as well as entire Belgium) with the North (above the rivers) being rather Protestants. Language-wise, Belgium's history of three languages is of interest, you could say the same about Switzerland. I wouldn't call USA solely English-speaking either. Heck, just look at the names of places around SV. Also, would you tip if the food was terrible? I wouldn't. They should be happy I paid (my wife before I knew her once had soup so salty, she send back to kitchen. Chef said was normal. They didn't resolve, yet the soup was on the bill. She and her friends just left). My recommendation to you? Well, I am not from USA but been in Cali a couple of times. Pivot to people who accept you for who you are. Don't hide where you're coming from, use it to empower you instead.
  - rayiner 4mo ago
    I feel like we agree on a lot so I don’t get your conclusion. > They don't have the same religion, customs, values, history, etc. Correct. But why is it “hatred” for people to not want immigrants to bring foreign customs and values with them? Customs and values are substantive! The customs and values of people around you affect your life, especially in a democracy where those people get to vote on the laws that govern you. > Assimilation takes generations Correct! You and Stephen Miller are on the same page about that. > That is how you get pizza snd maffia to New York (to name two random examples) Correct again! Why is it “hatred” and “stupidity” if you think the pizza wasn’t worth the mafia? > For example, I am from Amsterdam area My hypothesis is that New York City would be cleaner, more polite, better governed, and more orderly if it was still New Amsterdam. But the food would be crap. Do you disagree?
- georgemcbay 4mo ago
  > - i started watching football with my american friends And I'd assume and hope parts of your native culture rubbed off on your American friends. As someone whose ancestors have been American for quite a while (1850s) I can't make sense of the idea espoused by some on this thread* that "American culture" is something that needs to be strongly protected from changing and that's why we need to virtually lock-down immigration. The feature that makes "American culture" powerful is exactly that it assimilates to the people who come here, not that they assimilate to it. * (not you, this is just a convenient jumping off point for me to chime in on)
  - rayiner 4mo ago
    [flagged]
    - georgemcbay 4mo ago
      > But is that true? Massachusetts is one of the most functional states in the country. It is both affluent and prosperous, but also orderly and well governed. What’s a good part of Massachusetts culture that doesn’t come from the original British settlers and their descendants? I spent the first 22 years of my life living in Massachusetts around the Boston area and a lot of my fondest childhood memories center around celebrating multiculturism: St Patrick's day parades in Southie, Saint Anthony's feasts in the North End, August Moon Festival in Chinatown, etc. > Wouldn’t New York City be a better city—cleaner, less corrupt, more orderly—if it was in Massachusetts? I don't think so, I also lived in NYC for a year in 1999 and have visited it many times before and since and found NYC a much more interesting and vibrant place than Massachusetts, though both have their charms.
      - rayiner 4mo ago
        > I spent the first 22 years of my life living in Massachusetts around the Boston area and a lot of my fondest childhood memories center around celebrating multiculturism: St Patrick's day parades in Southie, Saint Anthony's feasts in the North End, August Moon Festival in Chinatown, etc. Those are all superficial. Without those cultural influences, Massachusetts would still be basically the same state, just with worse food. > I don't think so, I also lived in NYC for a year in 1999 and have visited it many times before and since and found NYC a much more interesting and vibrant place than Massachusetts, though both have their charms. “Vibrant” is a euphemism for “chaotic and dirty.” Nobody ever says Copenhagen is “vibrant.” Massachusetts is objectively better than New York in almost every way. It has great schools while New York has shit schools, but Massachusetts spends 25% less per student. Massachusetts has much lower corruption, greater state capacity to perform public works, etc. Those are the measures of a place—not whether it is “vibrant” or “interesting.”

rossjudson 4mo ago

Stop with your logic, please. Obviously they must complete American Nationalism training, readily available in whatever country they come from, which they can learn from Voice of America.