4 ms·

Yea, an arrest on your record, even if you're acquitted and/or get a settlement for police wrongdoing, can still mess you up. There are employers and landlords

Yea, an arrest on your record, even if you're acquitted and/or get a settlement for police wrongdoing, can still mess you up. There are employers and landlords who will ask you / check whether you were ever arrested, regardless of the outcome of the arrest. Mere involvement with Law Enforcement puts a permanent black mark on your record and can interfere with basic things for the rest of your life.

beepbooptheory 5mo ago
As someone who lives this reality (arrest but no conviction), it's in practice not really so bad. It's never come up with a landlord. The last time it came up was after being accepted to grad school and I had to fill out a form about it. You do just carry with you the knowledge that if you ever get pulled over the cop can pull it up about you and have reason to hassle you more.
- zephen 5mo ago
  "I'm going to hassle you because my brethren have hassled you before." Yup, sounds about right.
  - antonvs 5mo ago
    They don't call it a brotherhood for nothing.
    - zephen 5mo ago
      My choice of wording was not an accident.
- theendisney 5mo ago
  Not sure, would you (as a cop) help them with content creation?
- raddan 5mo ago
  Given that you’re posting on HN and went to grad school, I wonder whether you’ve worked a minimum wage job. Most of those applications ask whether you’ve ever been arrested. It’s been a long time since I worked one of those jobs, but I remember that all of the applications I filled out back then asked me. Thankfully the answer was no. Working minimum wage jobs is demoralizing on multiple levels. The jobs are often physically exhausting (I unloaded trucks and stocked shelves among other things). But the worst part is that the entire system treats you with disdain. You walk away with the strong feeling that nobody gives a shit. I knew that I wanted and could have better things but many of my coworkers internalized a different message.
dylan604 5mo ago
Then make part of the settlement having the arrest expunged.
fc417fc802 5mo ago
How would being arrested for memeing be a black mark? It would be a hilarious talking point that I would be more than happy to chat with a landlord, employer, or literally anyone else about. Anyone who would hold that against you is pretty much a textbook example of a bad person (banal evil or some such).
- cebert 5mo ago
  I could see firms doing background checks not caring about those nuances or taking the time to consider why the individual was arrested.
  - daheza 5mo ago
    Especially if it’s just an AI review
- justech 5mo ago
  In a perfect world, sure. But realistically, people don't dig into the context. They see an arrest on your record and move to the next guy. Either that or, some automated system sees you checked 'yes I was arrested before' and filters you out automatically.
- dgoldstein0 5mo ago
  Some won't ask for details and just reject. Which of course sucks but they may view it as less risky than trying to evaluate the details and make a judgement call. That said if you do go into circumstances - "I did it to get arrested and get a payout" could also be viewed as a red flag - says "may screw you/the company for money". Probably not the employee / tenant / etc you might want.
- buzzerbetrayed 5mo ago
  I wouldn’t rent my house to someone who has been arrested for memeing. It’s an unnecessary risk with absolutely no upside for me. What happens when they decide to meme on their landlord?
  - 5mo ago
vitally3643 5mo ago
You must not have ever been poor because the idea of several thousand dollars right now completely obliterates any notion of "maybe less money later, possibly" Particularly if you're young and poor. Humans don't really work the way you're implying from your armchair.
- borski 5mo ago
  I was poor (as in, well below FPL), the son of two immigrants, for many years. That’s precisely how I thought - getting involved with a “get money now” scheme was not worth the “no money ever again” it often came with. I watched friends do things like this and face consequences later. Not to discourage anyone from protesting, but not all poor people think alike.
- rolandhvar 5mo ago
  There's poor and stupid, and then there's poor and smart
  - lmaoguy 5mo ago
    I can tell you which one is significantly more common
    - esseph 5mo ago
      Ironically some of the smartest people I know aren't at all wealthy.
- NikolaNovak 5mo ago
  I was a poor refugee, but different people take such situations differently. For my family, it was a stern adherence to law and rules, an extreme low risk approach. For others, granted, it was dismissal of law and rules. Certainly, being poor and hungry made us even more averse to conflicts with the law / police / society / system. Again, others drew opposite lessons and approaches.
  - 5mo ago
worik 5mo ago
> Yea, an arrest on your record What an awful data environment The fact that you were arrested, charged even, if not convicted should not be discoverable by third parties Uncivilised
- jMyles 5mo ago
  > The fact that you were arrested, charged even, if not convicted should not be discoverable by third parties That's how people get disappeared in failed states. It's perfectly fine to force the state to clearly declare whom they have detained and their reasons for doing so. We also need to recognize that arrests are very often preposterous (or worse, retaliatory) and not hold it (absent other information or further proceedings) against people.
  - FireBeyond 5mo ago
    ... subsequent to release. The fact that someone is in custody should be always available. But it should not be up to Joe Random to pay $11 to my State Patrol to find out why I was arrested last week, especially if I wasn't charged.
    - jMyles 5mo ago
      Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the nature of information propagation in the universe, but how do you propose to require the state to declare whom it has detained one week, and then to make that information unavailable the following week? (and even if you were able to change the nature of reality as you suggest, why accommodate the state's desire to deny such an action after-the-fact?)
      - A1kmm 5mo ago
        I think regulating the retention and processing of information is entirely feasible even in circumstances where the information is initially available for a different purpose. This is in fact the legal status quo in Europe as well as many non-EU countries. Now there is no absolute guarantee that, if someone has the information, and they are legally required to delete it or not use it, that they don't break the law. But it works in the case of balancing the need to avoid people being disappeared against preventing dragnet misuse of arrest data by employers and landlords. Maybe organised crime employers would systematically break the law if maintaining a database illegal, but they also probably don't mind people with arrest records.
alexanderh 5mo ago
This is really far from true, unless you're talking about federal security clearances.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
tamimio 5mo ago
Which is why I believe criminal records should only be kept for serious crimes (killing, etc.), anything less, the record gets deleted after few months completely. Otherwise, just as you said, the black mark on the records are worse than serving a whole year in prison, and can be used to exploit others.
- FireBeyond 5mo ago
  While there are a few other ways it can happen, my state likes to say that certain criminal records are available for expungement. One of the criteria: "The person has reached 120 years of age." Cool.
cybercatgurrl 5mo ago
this is gonna have chilling effects on free speech in america. people are gonna be thinking twice about criticising authorities after a pattern of this happening on a national level is established
- alsetmusic 5mo ago
  If you let them make you think twice before posting, you're letting them win. I'm not saying that I don't think twice about how to word things or that I'm some sort of free speech warrior. I'm saying that when I make concessions, I feel bad about it. Try to be brave and keep speaking openly about your contempt for the people in charge.
pavel_lishin 5mo ago
I have an arrest on my record. It has never, to this day, impacted my life negatively. (Aside from the actual experience, including paying legal fees - I certainly didn't get a settlement out of it.)
throawayonthe 5mo ago
to clarify, is this a 'record' in the abstract sense of 'something that can be known about your past' (someone googles your name and a news article mentions arrest) or some kind of literal record with arrest records etc accessible (publicly? by employers?) in the US?

beepbooptheory 5mo ago

As someone who lives this reality (arrest but no conviction), it's in practice not really so bad. It's never come up with a landlord. The last time it came up was after being accepted to grad school and I had to fill out a form about it. You do just carry with you the knowledge that if you ever get pulled over the cop can pull it up about you and have reason to hassle you more.

zephen 5mo ago
"I'm going to hassle you because my brethren have hassled you before." Yup, sounds about right.
- antonvs 5mo ago
  They don't call it a brotherhood for nothing.
  - zephen 5mo ago
    My choice of wording was not an accident.
theendisney 5mo ago
Not sure, would you (as a cop) help them with content creation?
raddan 5mo ago
Given that you’re posting on HN and went to grad school, I wonder whether you’ve worked a minimum wage job. Most of those applications ask whether you’ve ever been arrested. It’s been a long time since I worked one of those jobs, but I remember that all of the applications I filled out back then asked me. Thankfully the answer was no. Working minimum wage jobs is demoralizing on multiple levels. The jobs are often physically exhausting (I unloaded trucks and stocked shelves among other things). But the worst part is that the entire system treats you with disdain. You walk away with the strong feeling that nobody gives a shit. I knew that I wanted and could have better things but many of my coworkers internalized a different message.

dylan604 5mo ago

Then make part of the settlement having the arrest expunged.

fc417fc802 5mo ago

How would being arrested for memeing be a black mark? It would be a hilarious talking point that I would be more than happy to chat with a landlord, employer, or literally anyone else about. Anyone who would hold that against you is pretty much a textbook example of a bad person (banal evil or some such).

cebert 5mo ago
I could see firms doing background checks not caring about those nuances or taking the time to consider why the individual was arrested.
- daheza 5mo ago
  Especially if it’s just an AI review
justech 5mo ago
In a perfect world, sure. But realistically, people don't dig into the context. They see an arrest on your record and move to the next guy. Either that or, some automated system sees you checked 'yes I was arrested before' and filters you out automatically.
dgoldstein0 5mo ago
Some won't ask for details and just reject. Which of course sucks but they may view it as less risky than trying to evaluate the details and make a judgement call. That said if you do go into circumstances - "I did it to get arrested and get a payout" could also be viewed as a red flag - says "may screw you/the company for money". Probably not the employee / tenant / etc you might want.
buzzerbetrayed 5mo ago
I wouldn’t rent my house to someone who has been arrested for memeing. It’s an unnecessary risk with absolutely no upside for me. What happens when they decide to meme on their landlord?
- 5mo ago

vitally3643 5mo ago

You must not have ever been poor because the idea of several thousand dollars right now completely obliterates any notion of "maybe less money later, possibly" Particularly if you're young and poor. Humans don't really work the way you're implying from your armchair.

borski 5mo ago
I was poor (as in, well below FPL), the son of two immigrants, for many years. That’s precisely how I thought - getting involved with a “get money now” scheme was not worth the “no money ever again” it often came with. I watched friends do things like this and face consequences later. Not to discourage anyone from protesting, but not all poor people think alike.
rolandhvar 5mo ago
There's poor and stupid, and then there's poor and smart
- lmaoguy 5mo ago
  I can tell you which one is significantly more common
  - esseph 5mo ago
    Ironically some of the smartest people I know aren't at all wealthy.
NikolaNovak 5mo ago
I was a poor refugee, but different people take such situations differently. For my family, it was a stern adherence to law and rules, an extreme low risk approach. For others, granted, it was dismissal of law and rules. Certainly, being poor and hungry made us even more averse to conflicts with the law / police / society / system. Again, others drew opposite lessons and approaches.
- 5mo ago

worik 5mo ago

> Yea, an arrest on your record What an awful data environment The fact that you were arrested, charged even, if not convicted should not be discoverable by third parties Uncivilised

jMyles 5mo ago
> The fact that you were arrested, charged even, if not convicted should not be discoverable by third parties That's how people get disappeared in failed states. It's perfectly fine to force the state to clearly declare whom they have detained and their reasons for doing so. We also need to recognize that arrests are very often preposterous (or worse, retaliatory) and not hold it (absent other information or further proceedings) against people.
- FireBeyond 5mo ago
  ... subsequent to release. The fact that someone is in custody should be always available. But it should not be up to Joe Random to pay $11 to my State Patrol to find out why I was arrested last week, especially if I wasn't charged.
  - jMyles 5mo ago
    Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the nature of information propagation in the universe, but how do you propose to require the state to declare whom it has detained one week, and then to make that information unavailable the following week? (and even if you were able to change the nature of reality as you suggest, why accommodate the state's desire to deny such an action after-the-fact?)
    - A1kmm 5mo ago
      I think regulating the retention and processing of information is entirely feasible even in circumstances where the information is initially available for a different purpose. This is in fact the legal status quo in Europe as well as many non-EU countries. Now there is no absolute guarantee that, if someone has the information, and they are legally required to delete it or not use it, that they don't break the law. But it works in the case of balancing the need to avoid people being disappeared against preventing dragnet misuse of arrest data by employers and landlords. Maybe organised crime employers would systematically break the law if maintaining a database illegal, but they also probably don't mind people with arrest records.

alexanderh 5mo ago

This is really far from true, unless you're talking about federal security clearances.

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

tamimio 5mo ago

Which is why I believe criminal records should only be kept for serious crimes (killing, etc.), anything less, the record gets deleted after few months completely. Otherwise, just as you said, the black mark on the records are worse than serving a whole year in prison, and can be used to exploit others.

FireBeyond 5mo ago
While there are a few other ways it can happen, my state likes to say that certain criminal records are available for expungement. One of the criteria: "The person has reached 120 years of age." Cool.

cybercatgurrl 5mo ago

this is gonna have chilling effects on free speech in america. people are gonna be thinking twice about criticising authorities after a pattern of this happening on a national level is established

alsetmusic 5mo ago
If you let them make you think twice before posting, you're letting them win. I'm not saying that I don't think twice about how to word things or that I'm some sort of free speech warrior. I'm saying that when I make concessions, I feel bad about it. Try to be brave and keep speaking openly about your contempt for the people in charge.

pavel_lishin 5mo ago

I have an arrest on my record. It has never, to this day, impacted my life negatively. (Aside from the actual experience, including paying legal fees - I certainly didn't get a settlement out of it.)

throawayonthe 5mo ago

to clarify, is this a 'record' in the abstract sense of 'something that can be known about your past' (someone googles your name and a news article mentions arrest) or some kind of literal record with arrest records etc accessible (publicly? by employers?) in the US?