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This is why although I don't love my Apple Watch, I'm not using anything else. It's very sensitive data and Apple is the only company worth trusting with it. Th

This is why although I don't love my Apple Watch, I'm not using anything else. It's very sensitive data and Apple is the only company worth trusting with it. They're not perfect but compared to others there's no competition.

jeroenhd 5mo ago
Google's Health Connect system doesn't share this data either (without a consent prompt for third party apps, off course). This is to the point where I wish it would just support some kind of sync, because two devices hooked up to the same accounts need a third party app to transfer the health info. Apple is subject to the same laws Oura is. The competition is too.
- jjice 5mo ago
  I believe the Apple one is E2E encrypted so they physically can't give useful data. Thats the core issue with Oura here.
  - jeroenhd 5mo ago
    Apple's iCloud default is still to link the encryption key to your account password, with a bunch of extra steps if you wish to use your own key instead, just like Google does. It doesn't really matter that the data is encrypted end to end if Apple backs up the encryption key based on a factor they already know (your password).
SoftTalker 5mo ago
Apple might be pretty good now. There's no assurance they always will be.
- basisword 5mo ago
  If that's your policy you can't use anything ever.
haritha-j 5mo ago
Yeah there's no one I'd trust with my personal data except Apple. Their track record of refusing to bow down to the feds has been golden. 24 carat infact.
- echelon 5mo ago
  In the US. Apple's policies are flexible when it comes to other nation states. All it takes is a political sea change for E2EE to go away. Apple already has to hand over a wealth of information when asked by the feds.
  - GeekyBear 5mo ago
    Apple literally removed encrypted file storage as a feature in the UK rather than comply with demands for access to encrypted customer data from the UK government. Previously, they refused US government demands for a backdoor that would allow them to unlock locked devices.
    - pepperoni_pizza 5mo ago
      > Apple literally removed encrypted file storage as a feature in the UK rather than comply with demands for access to encrypted customer data from the UK government. Does that mean that instead of UK government accessing the data (through a backdoor), UK government can now access to data (because it's not encrypted at all)?
      - GeekyBear 5mo ago
        Nope. After Apple's announcement that they would remove encryption from UK users rather than weaken it, the bad press and public pressure forced the UK government to back down.
        clutter55561 5mo ago
        Not exactly. Apple kept it for existing users but stopped offering it to new users. So new users are vulnerable.
GeekyBear 5mo ago
A great example is Apple's new in-house cellular modem design, which gives you the option to stop reporting your exact location to your cellular provider. The best way to prevent the Feds from getting access to customer data is to not collect it in the first place.
mmh0000 5mo ago
You may want to reevaluate. Apple has a great PR (propaganda) department that has convinced many people they respect your privacy. In truth, they do not. They're "better" than Google, but only slightly. And only so slightly that realistically it doesn't matter. "Apple is taking the unprecedented step of removing its highest level data security tool from customers in the UK, after the government demanded access to user data." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo It happened in the UK; it will not be long before it happens in the US. -- Also, USA: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36084244 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36084244 -- Also, France, Germany, Australia, Brazil, Japan: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/pdf/requests-2024-H1-en.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/pdf/requests-2024-H... -- Also, Russia: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-04/apple-filing-details-user-data-the-company-is-storing-in-russia https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-04/apple-fil... -- Also, China: https://www.article19.org/resources/apple-cares-about-digital-rights-unless-youre-in-china/ https://www.article19.org/resources/apple-cares-about-digita... -- Also in general: https://proton.me/blog/iphone-privacy https://proton.me/blog/iphone-privacy
- add-sub-mul-div 5mo ago
  It's brilliant how they've laundered their "privacy" reputation through Google etc. and people believe it so fully.
- GeekyBear 5mo ago
  Did you just post an article where Apple refused a UK government order to weaken their encryption as "proof" that Apple doesn't respect customer privacy? Also, the US Government has already demanded that Apple weaken device encryption. Apple fought it in court, and the government dropped their demand rather than set a privacy precedent they wanted to avoid.
- fc417fc802 5mo ago
  I'm confused what you think Apple should have done differently there. If the government presents you with a legal demand generally your only options are to either comply or leave the market. Would you prefer Apple to have pulled out of the UK entirely? I'm not even much of a fan of Apple but I really don't think you can hold it against them when they loudly protest but ultimately comply with legal demands.
lorecore 5mo ago
I don't trust them. https://www.mintpressnews.com/apple-israel-unit-8200-hiring/290226/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/apple-israel-unit-8200-hiring/...
jesterson 5mo ago
> Apple is the only company worth trusting with it Wonder what makes you you think so. Care to elaborate? Really hope it's not their ubiquitous ads showcasing how they "treat privacy seriously".

jeroenhd 5mo ago

Google's Health Connect system doesn't share this data either (without a consent prompt for third party apps, off course). This is to the point where I wish it would just support some kind of sync, because two devices hooked up to the same accounts need a third party app to transfer the health info. Apple is subject to the same laws Oura is. The competition is too.

jjice 5mo ago
I believe the Apple one is E2E encrypted so they physically can't give useful data. Thats the core issue with Oura here.
- jeroenhd 5mo ago
  Apple's iCloud default is still to link the encryption key to your account password, with a bunch of extra steps if you wish to use your own key instead, just like Google does. It doesn't really matter that the data is encrypted end to end if Apple backs up the encryption key based on a factor they already know (your password).

SoftTalker 5mo ago

Apple might be pretty good now. There's no assurance they always will be.

basisword 5mo ago
If that's your policy you can't use anything ever.

haritha-j 5mo ago

Yeah there's no one I'd trust with my personal data except Apple. Their track record of refusing to bow down to the feds has been golden. 24 carat infact.

echelon 5mo ago
In the US. Apple's policies are flexible when it comes to other nation states. All it takes is a political sea change for E2EE to go away. Apple already has to hand over a wealth of information when asked by the feds.
- GeekyBear 5mo ago
  Apple literally removed encrypted file storage as a feature in the UK rather than comply with demands for access to encrypted customer data from the UK government. Previously, they refused US government demands for a backdoor that would allow them to unlock locked devices.
  - pepperoni_pizza 5mo ago
    > Apple literally removed encrypted file storage as a feature in the UK rather than comply with demands for access to encrypted customer data from the UK government. Does that mean that instead of UK government accessing the data (through a backdoor), UK government can now access to data (because it's not encrypted at all)?
    - GeekyBear 5mo ago
      Nope. After Apple's announcement that they would remove encryption from UK users rather than weaken it, the bad press and public pressure forced the UK government to back down.
      - clutter55561 5mo ago
        Not exactly. Apple kept it for existing users but stopped offering it to new users. So new users are vulnerable.

GeekyBear 5mo ago

A great example is Apple's new in-house cellular modem design, which gives you the option to stop reporting your exact location to your cellular provider. The best way to prevent the Feds from getting access to customer data is to not collect it in the first place.

mmh0000 5mo ago

You may want to reevaluate. Apple has a great PR (propaganda) department that has convinced many people they respect your privacy. In truth, they do not. They're "better" than Google, but only slightly. And only so slightly that realistically it doesn't matter. "Apple is taking the unprecedented step of removing its highest level data security tool from customers in the UK, after the government demanded access to user data." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo It happened in the UK; it will not be long before it happens in the US. -- Also, USA: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36084244 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36084244 -- Also, France, Germany, Australia, Brazil, Japan: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/pdf/requests-2024-H1-en.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/pdf/requests-2024-H... -- Also, Russia: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-04/apple-filing-details-user-data-the-company-is-storing-in-russia https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-04/apple-fil... -- Also, China: https://www.article19.org/resources/apple-cares-about-digital-rights-unless-youre-in-china/ https://www.article19.org/resources/apple-cares-about-digita... -- Also in general: https://proton.me/blog/iphone-privacy https://proton.me/blog/iphone-privacy

add-sub-mul-div 5mo ago
It's brilliant how they've laundered their "privacy" reputation through Google etc. and people believe it so fully.
GeekyBear 5mo ago
Did you just post an article where Apple refused a UK government order to weaken their encryption as "proof" that Apple doesn't respect customer privacy? Also, the US Government has already demanded that Apple weaken device encryption. Apple fought it in court, and the government dropped their demand rather than set a privacy precedent they wanted to avoid.
fc417fc802 5mo ago
I'm confused what you think Apple should have done differently there. If the government presents you with a legal demand generally your only options are to either comply or leave the market. Would you prefer Apple to have pulled out of the UK entirely? I'm not even much of a fan of Apple but I really don't think you can hold it against them when they loudly protest but ultimately comply with legal demands.

lorecore 5mo ago

I don't trust them. https://www.mintpressnews.com/apple-israel-unit-8200-hiring/290226/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/apple-israel-unit-8200-hiring/...

jesterson 5mo ago

> Apple is the only company worth trusting with it Wonder what makes you you think so. Care to elaborate? Really hope it's not their ubiquitous ads showcasing how they "treat privacy seriously".