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Didgeridoo playing as alternative treatment for obstructive sleep apnoea (2006)
- jimmcslim 5mo agoDidgeridoo specifically?, or any instrument that requires circular breathing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_breathing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_breathing
- scrumbledober 5mo agothe study was conducted using a didgeridoo but the circular breathing seems to be the important mechanism. No studies have been conducted on other instruments that require or benefit from it.
- jojobas 5mo agoI doubt many of them actually figured out how to circular breathe after one lesson. Source: have been playing sax for 20 years, tried learning it many times, still no good.
- marginalia_nu 5mo agoAulos it is then!
- pegasus 5mo agoCircular breathing is easiest to accomplish on the didgeridoo. This is because of several reasons: optimal back-pressure (hits the sweet spot between lack of resistance on a flute and too much of it on an oboe, for example), loose embouchure (relaxed lips make it easier to puff up the cheeks) and single drone focus (no distracting fingerings required). I also suspect the intense vibrations have a similar effect (probably stronger) to humming, which is known to dramatically (15-20x) increase the release of beneficial nitrous oxide in the nasal passages.
- joshspankit 5mo ago> I also suspect the intense vibrations have a similar effect… My gut says that there are some interesting discoveries waiting around the intersections of frequency of vibration, individual resonant frequency, and duration
- yks 5mo agowould oboe be more effective then, albeit harder to will-power yourself into mastering?
- pegasus 5mo agoPossibly yes when it comes to air pressure, but the learning curve will be steeper. But not when it comes to the generated vibrations, and my bet is the latter are more important.
- georgemcbay 5mo agoThere are also various simple tongue and throat exercises that can improve your sleep apnea that would generally be better tolerated by your neighbors than playing a Didgeridoo, see for example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNscQ3bGxNk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNscQ3bGxNk ...along with various other videos on that person's youtube channel (he's an NHS Sleep and Ear Surgeon). Of course, there are lots of underlying causes of sleep apnea that vary between people, so what helps one person may or may not be relevant for others. Seeing a doctor in the field should be your first step if you suspect you are suffering from sleep apnea.
- worthless-trash 5mo agoJokes on you, my neighbours already play the digeriedoo.
- defrost 5mo agoIf your neighbour plays the banjo, invite them over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr3iI8gg2fo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr3iI8gg2fo Two wrongs can make a right.
- _puk 5mo ago45 seconds of didge, and then be puts it down! Hope he sleeps well tonight!
- defrost 5mo agoBlame the song structure. You'll hear Charlie McMahon going at it with continuous circular breathing for five to eight minutes or so on the early Gondwanaland albums (along with sliding length didgeridoo effects and 'singing' down tube).
- philiplu 5mo agoThx for linking that. Just … wow
- gramie 5mo ago
- idiocrat 5mo agoThere seems to be a typing mistake. The embouchure should have diameter of 2.8-3.2 centimeters, not millimeters. Perhaps that can be done DIY from an PVC pipe with an hot air gun or a gas burner to soften and shape the end. "Participants received a standardised acrylic plastic didgeridoo that was developed by the instructor in collaboration with Creacryl GmbH (Ebmatingen, Zurich, Switzerland, and costs €80 (£43; $94), fig 1). The didgeridoo is 130 cm long with a diameter of 4 cm and an elliptical embouchure with a diameter of 2.8-3.2 mm. Acrylic didgeridoos are easier for beginners to learn on than conventional wooden didgeridoos."
- andersmurphy 5mo agoYeah that should be 2.8-3.3cm for sure.
- defrost 5mo agoFor added fun, two tubes of roughly that size that air seal fit one inside the other makes for a slide didgeribone. addendum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1d7Eztj7Eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1d7Eztj7Eg
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- roel_v 5mo ago"Perhaps that can be done DIY from an PVC pipe with an hot air gun or a gas burner to soften and shape the end." When I used to make my own PVC didgeridoos, I would melt candle wax and then dip one end repeatedly into the wax to build up wax layers until it had the desired thickness and shape.
- smartial_arts 5mo agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiqEhJJqtbc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiqEhJJqtbc
- eth0up 5mo ago
- dartharva 5mo agoThe captcha on this site is irritating. Original paper: https://www.bmj.com/content/332/7536/266 https://www.bmj.com/content/332/7536/266
- vasco 5mo ago> The randomisation list was concealed from the recruiting physicians and the didgeridoo instructor in an administrative office otherwise not involved in the study. We used a central telephone service, which the didgeridoo instructor used to obtain group allocation. Oh, did you make use of the central telephone service did you? You didn't send the list by carrier pigeons?
- Ngraph 5mo agoCPAP user here, and "have you tried taking up the didgeridoo" is comfortably the best sentence I've ever read in a medical journal. The mask works fine — it's just that I go to bed every night looking like a minor Star Wars character, so I'm very open to alternatives. And from the other comments, the didgeridoo sounds like the boring tongue exercises in a trenchcoat: same throat muscles, except you might actually keep doing it. Which is the entire problem with the tongue exercises. Study was moderate apnea so I'm keeping the machine. But I am absolutely buying a didgeridoo and becoming insufferable about it. My household has been notified.
- DTrejo 5mo ago30% of Americans have reflux, which is associated with obstructive sleep apnea. Check out the papers on Inspiratory Muscle Training (IMT) and bridge swallowing.
- jojobas 5mo agoLooks like there was no placebo group? Don't know what that could be, something silly like otamatone lessons.
- RobotToaster 5mo agoA placebo didgeridoo, otherwise known as a didgeridon't
- nephihaha 5mo agoNow I want to hear about the possible effects of ukulele playing on scoliosis.
- askvictor 5mo agoRTFA? "Participants in the control group remained on the waiting list for lessons"
- gblargg 5mo agoThat's not a placebo. A placebo would be learning to play some other instrument like a piano, that doesn't involve breath. I also RTFA and saw no mention of any meaningful control group. For all they know the effects would come from learning any instrument, or just going to regular classes, or...
- Darmani 5mo agoI started playing didgeridoo 10 years ago for precisely this reason. Sleep apnea already cured by weight loss, but I knew by air pathways were prone to it, and I never wanted it to come back. It worked It took me 1-2 years to learn circular breathing, but even just learning to play for 15 seconds on one breath can give the "oxygen high" from breathing so much.
- sigmoid10 5mo agoYou can't get "oxygen high" from breathing normal air. The O2 levels will always stay the same unless you stop breathing for a while. What will make you feel weird in the head when breathing too fast is the reduction of CO2 in your blood.
- dmos62 5mo agoSo, if you breathe in an intensive manner for a few minutes, oxygen percentage in the blood won't change?
- cenamus 5mo agoNo it would stay at pretty much 100% (as is normal). But co2 goes down, which lessens the ability of oxygen to come out of the blood. That's why you get dizzy when hyperventilating
- jcul 5mo agoIf you've ever done the wim hof breathing method, it is a very intense experience. Basically hyperventilation + long breath holds. Probably similar to what free divers do without the mammalian dive reflex due to the cold water. Or like a dangerous game kids used to do when I was in school where you hyperventilate and then have someone press on your chest until you pass out. But anyway, I'm not sure if the science would back it up, but Wim Hof describes it as over oxygenating the blood and then stopping and letting CO2 ramp up or something. Whether it is significantly dropping the CO2 or increasing oxygen during the hyperventilation phase, isn't it kind of the same thing? Adjusting the ratio. Anecdotally, when I was doing it regularly I seemed to not get sick at all.
- asdff 5mo agoLast thing I need for my sleep through my thin walls is a neighbor with a didgeridoo.
- hks0 5mo agoA friend of mine started "blowing air into water with an straw" (making bubbles) very seriously. I was very skeptical to say the least; but after a couple of months the effects have been very eye opening. Not only it has helped sleep apnea and snoring but also helped with reducing their weight. They had an online group and most participants reported the same. The wight loss was reverted when they stopped for some personal reasons. I wonder if making bubbles in the water has the same effect.
- hks0 5mo agoJust learned from comments here it's called "circular breathing"!
- sigmoid10 5mo agoJust read how this works and tried it. A bit tricky at first but actually quite easy once you get the hang of it. And it's kind of a fun exercise. Now I'm wondering if I should get a Didgeridoo too.
- jbaber 5mo agoYes. Someone who masters circular breathing in a weekend should start playing a wind instrument.
- sigmoid10 5mo agoWhat wind instrument do you play and how long did it take you to learn this technique?
- mindok 5mo ago50mm/2” PVC pipe with a bit of beeswax on the end to protect your lips is a quick way to test out whether you want to spend the time to track down a proper didgeridoo.
- mswphd 5mo agocircular breathing is useful for other instruments as well, though it's not typically a technique that's necessary until you get to fairly high levels.
- nopurpose 5mo agoThese two https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXBGZoBYaLY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXBGZoBYaLY must be best dorm neighbours ever then.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5mo agoThat's fairly cool. I probably couldn't listen to that on a regular, but I enjoyed it. Thanks!
- xuzhenpeng 5mo ago[flagged]
- sam-cop-vimes 5mo agoUnrelated to the content of this submission, but trying to visit this link in Firefox takes me into an endless recaptcha loop, whereas visiting in Chrome took me to the site without any captcha.
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- StilesCrisis 5mo agoWondering what sort of plugins you've got on the Firefox side. If they're stripping out headers, for instance, it's a good way to make yourself look like a bot.
- sam-cop-vimes 5mo agoI've only got "Firefox Multi-Account Containers" and "Privacy Badger". I tried reloading with Privacy Badger disabled, still the same behaviour. Works in Safari and Chrome with no issues at all!
- sam-cop-vimes 5mo agoSo I fired up Developer Tools to see what was happening...and the site just loaded. I am so confused.
- galangalalgol 5mo agoFirefox on android with ublock origin didn't hit any captchas. I wonder what triggers them?
- wiredfool 5mo agoUnfortunately, digeridoo playing is just as disruptive to partner's sleep as snoring is. Perhaps they should try bagpipes?
- j45 5mo agoBoth can practice in the other room.
- andersmurphy 5mo agoDidge isn't that loud unless you're really going for it. Nothing compared to bagpipes.
- ncruces 5mo agoI suspect bagpipes may be the worst wind instrument to learn in this regard, at least if the goal is to train circular breathing?
- nephihaha 5mo agoSeveral varieties of bagpipe I'm aware of don't even require breathing, since they're powered by bellows. The pipes are surprisingly hard to learn by the way. One normally starts on the chanter, which is more like a recorder and is not bag assisted.
- mrob 5mo ago>One normally starts on the chanter, which is more like a recorder In the case of the Great Highland bagpipes, the most similar traditional instrument is the rauschpfeife (capped double-reed with conical bore and without prominent bell): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rauschpfeife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rauschpfeife
- larodi 5mo agoI would imagine some basic breathing techniques may help, wonder what the research in anuloma viloma pranayama shows, but beware there's a lot written by random people on the internet about it without scientific evidence.
- nubinetwork 5mo agoYeah I dunno if I believe this, I played trombone when I was a kid... I didn't get sleep apnea until like 10 years ago. Unless it somehow takes like 30 years to develop, it seems implausible.
- y-curious 5mo agon=25, self report AND only players with partners. I think there’s merit to using muscular musculature to improve your sleep apnea but this doesn’t answer the question of why playing the instrument wasn’t preventative in the first place.
- mariusor 5mo agoBecause anatomy not consistently used declines in fitness?
- masfuerte 5mo agoAnd unused muscles start to significantly decline in your mid-forties. Maybe thirty years after playing trombone as a kid.
- nubinetwork 5mo agoBrb, joining the brass band at the legion.
- lazyasciiart 5mo agoBecause they didn’t play until the study began? The population was people who had signed up to learn how to play.
- elric 5mo agoWhat are you saying? That you expected your childhood trombone playing would somehow protect you from sleep apnea forever? "Use it or lose it." Sleep apnea can certainly take 30 years to develop. Old age increases the chances of getting it. Menopause does too. Muscles get weaker.
- lemonberry 5mo agoUnrelated to the health aspects, but if you like electronic music and the Didgeridoo check out Aphex Twin's album "Digeridoo". It's so good.
- swingboy 5mo agoAlways my first thought when reading/hearing the word.
- bizzletk 5mo agoAnd also the mandatory "Treaty, Yeah!": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPmDLR_M50M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPmDLR_M50M
- nephihaha 5mo ago?Yothi Yindi? I listened to this song a bit back in the early nineties but it sounds a bit dated now. (Ironically the traditional instruments sound a lot better than the synths.) Didgeridoo (when played properly) can sound great. Like the bagpipes there are a lot of people who can barely play, but go out busking.
- thesuperbigfrog 5mo agoIf you like psy electronic music, there is 'The Mystic Didgeridoo': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhhLhb3zc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhhLhb3zc8
- nephihaha 5mo agoThe carnyx is the nearest traditional western European equivalent. There is a guy who plays it called John Kenny who I don't rate. Abraham Cupeiro, on the other hand, is amazing. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhwWihyylPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhwWihyylPg
- antfarm 5mo agoYou may like Tribal Need's Genetic Modification Of Sound. Ricardo Moretti is also busking with a Roland Juno synth, looper and didgeridoo. I saw him in Berlin a couple of times in the early 2010s. https://tribalneed.bandcamp.com/album/genetic-modification-of-sound-2005 https://tribalneed.bandcamp.com/album/genetic-modification-o... A more recent live performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9LHiL2ETh0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9LHiL2ETh0
- 0dayman 5mo ago[dead]
- embirdating 5mo ago[dead]
- Ringz 5mo agoI once took a didgeridoo course and played for quite a while after that. One weekend of 2×3 hours of didgeridoo playing, and my nose was incredibly clear. Like never before and never again since. By the way, you can practice circular breathing very well in the shower. Take water in your mouth and breathe in through your nose while simultaneously spraying the water out through your lips.
- brador 5mo ago[flagged]
- christophilus 5mo agoNot true. I know very fit, very skinny triathletes who have sleep apnea.
- elric 5mo agoOh not this nonsense again. Plenty of "wafer thin" people have obstructive sleep apnea. There are lots of factors that contribute to sleep apnea, from big tonsils to hormones to muscle tone to tongue size. Weight is not the issue.
- Hydraulix989 5mo agoSkinny person with OSA here and three corrective jaw surgeries from world-expert sleep surgeons. You won't believe how many GPs told me to my face that it was impossible for me to have sleep apnea because I'm thin. Then the sleep study results came in with 30 AHI (severe range).
- electriclove 5mo agoWould you say the jaw surgeries were worth it? Do you still use a CPAP?
- untrust 5mo agoI have a visible six pack at rest but have it.
- deepspace 5mo agoPlease leave the fat shaming for Reddit. And if you are going to do it anyway, at least make sure your facts are correct. Lots of thin people suffer form sleep apnea.
- carwyn 5mo agoDouble Reed instruments have also been shown to have a positive effect for those suffering from sleep apnoea. It seems due to the higher air pressure needed to play: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_reed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_reed Presumably quadruple reed instruments (that require even more air pressure to play) would be even better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple_reed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple_reed
- analog8374 5mo agoIt sounds like an attention thing. Attention is magic stuff. Putting it on part of your body can make it better. Withdrawing it can make it worse. I suspect that much disease stems from such neglect. I used to have a chronically stuffed nose. Then I started doing a kind of meditation where I put my attention upon my nose. My nose opened up and I almost never get a stuffed nose anymore.
- sdenton4 5mo agoAre you saying that, in fact, attention is all you need?
- damnitbuilds 5mo agoI played with my didgeridoo 3 times a day for ten years and it cured my snoring. But I went blind.
- dhon_ 5mo agoWhat did-ger-eyes-doo?
- damnitbuilds 5mo agoLooking, just looking.
- nephihaha 5mo agoWhat's the worst thing to say to a didgeridoo busker? A: Do you do requests?
- data-ottawa 5mo agoI think my favourite part of the study is that the control group is just the class wait list. Unfortunately this study doesn’t control for luck.
- jph00 5mo agoI couldn't find a CPAP mask that worked for me, even after 6 months of trying across 4 different masks. Then I read studies showing oropharyngeal exercises can help treat sleep apnea. Originally I used https://snoregym.com/ https://snoregym.com/ for that, but then I switched to simply chewing gum once a day (being careful to chew on both sides of my mouth roughly equally), and also chewing my food a bit longer. It totally cured my sleep apnea.
- ElijahLynn 5mo agoWhat was your severity of sleep apnea? Do you mind sharing your AHI?
- Lucasoato 5mo agoHave you tested it with a polysomnography?
- mrguyorama 5mo agoHow come none of the masks worked? I was fully prepared to have to go through the entire gamut of masks to find one that worked, because I snore so surely I would need a mask that covers my mouth at least, right? But even while sleeping, my brain is keeping my mouth shut so the simplest, nose-only mask works perfectly, with very little leakage.
- ElijahLynn 5mo agoThere is another active study with a device called the DidgeriTU. Which is a mouth breathing appliance that you blow in. But fits in the palm of your hand. I'm interested to see the results of that one!
- ElijahLynn 5mo agoI'm actually trying this right now for my moderate sleep apnea. I had an AHI of 17 a few years ago and then I had deviated septum surgery and taught myself how to breathe through my mouth using mouth tape. And had a love-hate relationship with CPAP and finally got consistent with it in the past year. And now I found a new sleep medicine doctor who agreed to help me try out this claim in the study. (Previous sleep doctor had no interest in helping me with that). So we took another sleep test and AHI is still about 17. I'm doing the didgeridoo for 3 months for 15 minutes a day, using the air didge, which is adjustable but I'm using it in the lowest tone which is A. And we are going to test again after the 3 months is up!
- aucisson_masque 5mo agoYour CPAP should already be able to tell you how many AHI you have. It costs less and you get more data, every night, instead of just 2 samples.
- bjoli 5mo agoI remember a violin player back in my youth Orchestra days who always wanted to sleep in the same room as woodwond players (3 people in every room) because "string players snore".
- mistermaster1 5mo ago[dead]