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Two main takeaways: 1. Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue (and then
by xp84 5mo ago
Two main takeaways:
1. Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue (and then their corrupt representatives extract bribes on top of it)
2. Django's gratitude and positivity in the face of all of it is an inspiration. I suspect I and most everyone I know would be in tears and would have given up in exasperation halfway through his quest. We are so spoiled in the West.
- aaron695 5mo ago[dead]
- foxygen 5mo ago[flagged]
- oceanhaiyang 5mo agoWhat does this reddit-esque whataboutism add..?
- MArgentinaGA 5mo ago[flagged]
- ajsnigrutin 5mo agoEU just implemented a new customs tax law that will be coming to member states on july 1st. Until now, items below 150eur (bought by private citizens) were not a subject to customs, and some time ago not even for VAT if below 22eur. From july 1st, it's becoming painful, in slovenia for example, 3eur per TARIC code + customs fee + vat. So, for example you go on alixpress, you buy a silicone phone case for 1eur, a screen protector/foil for 1eur, a phone "sock" for 1eur and a stylus for 1 eur (+whatever shipping, often free). A few years ago, you'd pay 4eur and get the package. Then they implemented IOSS, so aliexpress has to report the 4eur order to EU, and they charge you 22% VAT on that, so you'd pay 4.88eur directly to aliexpress and they'd pay the tax. Ok, a bit more expensive but doable, unless you want to go outside of eu and order the stuff there and just bring it in with you. And now? Since they're 4 different items, that's 4 TARIC codes, and that's 3eur per each separate item, so that makes 4eur for items themselves, 4x3eur for customs (16eur together with the item price), then you pay VAT on the full price (including customs!), that makes it 19.52eur + whatever the post office decides to charge for "processing" (used to be ~4-5euros, but usually avoided by aliexpress shippers). So, instead of 4euros, you'll pay 20-25euros for the same thing, the government taking 20 euros of tax on 4euros of items (even less total worth, aliexpress + chinese shipping has to earn their share too). I mean sure, they want you to buy locally from dropshippers, but it's still cheaper than that, or from amazon, which will probably be the biggest winner here, and it's not even a european company.
- nekzn 5mo ago[flagged]
- 3683826312819 5mo ago[flagged]
- indianwashlet 5mo ago[flagged]
- kuerbel 5mo agoLocal sellers absolutely get shafted by cheap subsidised stuff from China. It creates a fairer environment. It also discourages ultra-cheap overconsumption, reduces counterfeit and unsafe products entering the market. You might not like it but there are good reasons for it. I'm not saying it's perfect, it's not how I would have done it if I was a benevolent dictator, but there are good reasons for it.
- nekzn 5mo agoAll local sellers do is buy the stuff from China and stick a huge markup on it. That’s what they did in the past before the days of AliExpress. It benefits the wealthy, in spite of the poor, like everything these days. It’s not something to be celebrated.
- ajsnigrutin 5mo agoBut we don't make phone cases in EU. Neither most of the stuff actually sold by aliexpress. Our local "phone case stands" in shopping centers sell the same cheap made-in-china stuff as on aliexpress but they want 15-20euros for the same cheap case that is 1eur on aliexpress (+10-15 for the screen protector, etc). I mean sure, they have to pay rent for the space and they have to pay the worker, but they're just a middle man, they produce no real value (except to get the case faster). So, back then, i'd pay 1eur and get the case (a bit later 1eur+vat), or 4eur (+vat) for all the items. I'd have money left over, that I could spend at a local restaurant, where other people would get paid, for cooking and serving me a meal (and farmers before that). (i won't give the "save to buy an apartment" example, because none of the EU states is actually doing anything to make that peossible for normal people, quite the opposite). And now I either pay a lot more money to the government (and get notting more back from them), pay a lot of money to a reseller/dropshipper, and get the item a week earlier than from aliexpress. There will be no european phone case company to take over that business, the just 'stuff' will be just more expensive, and we, europeans, will be able to afford less. And yes, I know, aliexpress will adapt, they'll build warehouses in EU, and iphone cases will be shipped from romania or hungary or somewhere, but they'll still be more expensive. And that's just phone cases... if you have an iphone, you'll find them in aliexpress warehouses locally. But what if you want custom electronics only found on aliexpress? Some niche esp32 board? Some salved controller for a retro computer? Can you count on aliexpress storing those things in EU too? Or will your other hobbies become much more expensive too?
- yamillove 5mo ago[dead]
- mr_00ff00 5mo agoIn regard to number 1, it really is such a hard problem to get money and aid to those that need it. Autocrats and every person with power along the way is happy to pocket it.
- skybrian 5mo agoIt seems like GiveDirectly has figured it out somehow?
- gaius_baltar 5mo ago> 1. Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue (and then their corrupt representatives extract bribes on top of it) As a Brazilian with a love for electronics and DIY, I feel this pain every day.
- MArgentinaGA 5mo ago[dead]
- MAustriaGA 5mo ago[dead]
- iririririr 5mo agothe 80% tax on electronics since the 80s was because brazil had a few chip foundries. two of them started cloning cpus designs (8080 and 68k iirc). they sold well all over the (1st and 2nd) world (still no local market). until one company did a publicity stunt lying they had a full mac clone (it was an actual mac, but they did have something else). then apple and others pressured the US state department, which pressured the brazilian gov with tarifs on oranges (most of the new elite created in the millitary coups were now big land owners and orange was the cash crop). They were so afraid of the tarifs that they closed both factories as requested, and added the import tax as a good will gesture on top! and many (30%) brazilians today think another military coup will sort things out
- noduerme 5mo agoI was going to snidely ask what Argentina's excuse was for its import tax on electronics, but it's been a decade since I lived there, and it appears they dropped the tariff to zero at the start of this year (2026). Really, talk about holding your economy back for the wrong reasons: Making it wildly expensive for people to get the tools they need to bring money into the local economy. Besides, all it did was open a black market.
- 5mo ago
- MArgentinaGA 5mo ago“Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue” Democratic Party city and state governments in the US: “HOLD MY BEER” Sources: 1. Virginia Democratic governor less than 24 hours after becoming governor: https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/virginia-new-governor-proposed-and-new-taxes-ba5fc3 https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/virginia-new-gover... 2: Seattle collectivist “my parents still pay for my cell plan since I have never had a real job” mayor: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/amy-curtis/2025/11/14/seattle-mayor-progressive-tax-options-to-fund-socialist-agenda-n2666448 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/amy-curtis/2025/11/14/seattle-... 3: NY new socialist wannabe Palestinian liberator mayor: https://nypost.com/2026/04/10/us-news/mamdani-pushed-combined-23b-worth-of-new-nyc-taxes-in-just-his-first-100-days/ https://nypost.com/2026/04/10/us-news/mamdani-pushed-combine... 4: California “I hate liars” liar and “Free 10x cost Diapers for everyone” Newsom government proposals: https://nypost.com/2026/02/12/us-news/californians-have-justified-outrage-over-2026-tax-ideas/ https://nypost.com/2026/02/12/us-news/californians-have-just...
- komali2 5mo ago[flagged]
- nradov 5mo agoWhat's the solution?
- elmomle 5mo agoArguably, just to leave them alone, neither exploiting nor trying to "help". It sucks and it hurts, but outside interference does not seem to help a society heal itself. This has been argued by more informed people than myself-- https://www.uvm.edu/~jashman/CDAE195_ESCI375/To%20Hell%20with%20Good%20Intentions.pdf https://www.uvm.edu/~jashman/CDAE195_ESCI375/To%20Hell%20wit...
- true_religion 5mo agoThat’s true in order to truly change a society you have to no longer be an outsider, but that’s a level of entanglement that NGOs rarely do now adays. The ones that do it though are all religious institutions so their goals are more social/moral rather than economic or geopolitical.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- codeforafrica 5mo agoWhat would help is to buy their products and resources for a fair price.
- ithkuil 5mo agoHow do you determine what's a fair price?
- 5mo ago
- afh1 5mo agoAll governments. And if you bypass their abuse, you're a "smuggler", shamed on by the press.
- nradov 5mo agoThis is unfortunately also one of the biggest problems with donating to NGOs that operate in many foreign countries. Much of the aid money gets stolen by corrupt officials and local criminals. Donors have to check carefully that NGOs are legitimately benefiting the intended recipients.
- MichaelZuo 5mo agoIf the implication is true… Shouldn’t people stop helping further entrench these shady practices? If Ugandan decision makers know the people will effectively always be underwritten to receive some bread and water… no matter what happens… Then what exactly is stopping them from piling on more and more nonsense?
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- jrumbut 5mo agoThe boundary on this is kind of fuzzy. You obviously wouldn't donate if 100% of it was stolen, but also if you wait until the world is in a perfected state before helping anyone you'll never help anyone.
- virgildotcodes 5mo agoBetter 20% of your money reaches a starving child than 0%.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- ekianjo 5mo agoYou have no way to know its higher than zero though
- virgildotcodes 5mo agoThere are many ways of knowing if you actually want to find out. Third party auditors, evaluations, reputation… just… reading reports and looking at evidence of field work. Too many people use this as an excuse to throw up their hands and say “well I guess I have no choice but to keep all my money for myself and donate nothing, damn, darn, totally not the conclusion I was secretly hoping to reach, not at all, oh man, damn.”
- throw2837363 5mo ago> We are so spoiled in the West. This can happen in the West too. I volunteered at a homeless shelter, and we helped those who had lost everything get important documents like their Social Security card and s state ID, and the bureaucracy was atrocious. Sometimes we literally had to beg a senator's office to help. At least they didn't ask for bribes, but I wonder if that would've made things easier.
- econ 5mo agoI was once asked to look at some letters by a reasonably fresh immigrant coworker. (He learned the language and found a job in a few months which to me should be all we needed from him) He brought a 1980 style stack of paper 30cm thick and it was all in legalese mixed with gibberish. Apparently some entities missed their deadline, triggered an investigation and a fine in a process that also missed it's deadline which triggered a different process looking for someone to blame. Other stuff was going on too, like a half finished immigration process in a different EU country. I asked another Dutch co-worker to help look at it. We pretty much couldn't make sense of the last letters. No idea what he had to do next. We joked that if we got that much corospondence we would flee the country. A few months later he moved to Canada.
- halayli 5mo ago> Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue (and then their corrupt representatives extract bribes on top of it) being a developing country or not is orthogonal to what you have described. The top developed nations have one or more of these issues.
- anthk 5mo agoMan, I am a native Spaniard and even with Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Bilbao and industrial powerhouses we can't compete with furthern North Italy/Germany/Netherlands in some areas, but I've heard horror stories from Latin America that wouldn't happen in Spain without making the news.
- margalabargala 5mo agoDeveloped countries may have exorbitant taxes and fees, but generally not bribes. Someone may say "a tax or fee is just a legalized bribe to the state!" Which, sure, you could look at it that way, but it's codified and predictable and that lack of surprise is extremely valuable.
- ruszki 5mo agoIt’s crazy that it’s magnitudes cheaper for me from the EU to go to a poor country with non existing administration, than the people from there to come to the EU. And magnitudes more convenient. Just to get a passport; for me, it’s a nuance and it basically costs nothing; for a lot of people in those countries, it’s impossible to get one legally, and one costs 100s or 1000s of dollars illegally. And that’s just the passport, not the traveling itself.
- xp84 5mo agoTo me that doesn't sound crazy, it's just about the fact that even being homeless in Amsterdam or something is a much easier life than what's available to a commoner in a good portion of sub-Saharan Africa. If it was incredibly simple to get a "tourist visa" for people from developing countries, Europe would have even more people just showing up and never leaving than they already do today. Whatever one thinks about the overall subject of migrants, I think one can at least agree with these two things: 1. We won't fix poverty and corruption in the developing world by everyone there just jumping to the nearest 'rich' country. 2. Once migrants are in the 'rich' country, it's more controversial and difficult to force them to go back home than it is to not enable them to come in the first place.
- interludead 5mo agoI agree with the second point especially. What stood out to me was not just that Django endured the bureaucracy, but that he remained grateful and composed through it
- notabotiswear 5mo ago>Never underestimate developing countries' governments' willingness to absolutely bend their people over to extract tax revenue If there is anything characteristic of developing countries’ taxing systems, it would be how short reaching and inadequate it is. Many of these countries’ governments are corrupt, sure, but these small revenue extracting schemes are about the only way they can collect “taxes” at all.