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WTF. These are some of the first things I clicked through on that page: - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55341.html https://www.mail-a
by kstrauser 5mo ago
WTF. These are some of the first things I clicked through on that page:
- https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55341.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534...
- https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55345.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534...
Gee, I can't imagine how that mailing list could ever be toxic.
- sanity 5mo agoNot sure what you mean but I stand by every word I said in that thread.
- angoragoats 5mo agoHoly shit. I’m a long-time admirer of freenet and you just single handedly destroyed any positive view of the project I may have held. Get a fucking grip and seek help if you can’t.
- sanity 5mo ago[flagged]
- angoragoats 5mo agoWhat? I don’t understand.
- DaSHacka 5mo agoHe's telling you to go and touch grass
- outside1234 5mo agoTouching grass is woke mind virus /s
- angoragoats 5mo agoThe person who said “the woke mind virus… is the greatest threat to civilization today” is telling me *I* am the one who should go touch grass? That’s hilarious.
- Timwi 5mo agoYup, it really is.
- outside2344 5mo agoA wise boss of mine, after reading a set of threads that I wrote like this, asked me to go think for a day on the difference between "being right" and "being effective." Some of the things you say in these threads might be "right" but I can assure you that many of them are not effective, which is counterproductive to the goal you are trying to achieve.
- sanity 5mo agoI prefer to say what I believe to be true rather than live in fear of how people looking to take offense might misconstrue something. A culture where people are expected to constantly self-censor to avoid bad-faith interpretations is unhealthy and corrosive.
- angoragoats 5mo ago[flagged]
- sanity 5mo agoSure, then just avoid me and I'll avoid you and we'll both be happier.
- angoragoats 5mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- imcritic 5mo ago[dead]
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- 5mo ago
- subscribed 5mo agoIf you think this is a correct communication style for someone who thinks they're a leader, I suggest getting an assistant to write your correspondence, or maybe some socialisation bootcamp. This is grim. If you stand by it I'd say good.... luck, yeah, good luck, you're singlehandedly the gravest enemy of the project.
- sanity 5mo agoYes, I stand by what I wrote. I'm not going to pretend otherwise because someone dug up an old mailing list post. If you think a specific statement was wrong, harmful, or dishonest, then explain why. I'll wait.
- outside1234 5mo agoIt is hard to take anyone seriously that says “The woke mind virus.” That is what is wrong with it.
- evilos 5mo agoThat phrase is on par with "chemtrails" and "vaccine truther" with its ability to vaporize one's credibility, if used unironically as OP did in those emails.
- sanity 5mo agoYour need to sort people based on trigger phrases says it all.
- hn_go_brrrrr 5mo agoNo, it really doesn't. You're reacting super defensively throughout this entire thread. It's a really bad look.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- spankalee 5mo ago> The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the greatest threat to civilization today. "The woke mind virus" really? You used that non-ironically? This is not something a serious or sane person would say for real.
- sanity 5mo agoYou'd be surprised how mainstream these views are outside certain bubbles.
- tardedmeme 5mo agoinside other bubbles. Why do you get to bypass the HN global rate limit?
- DANmode 5mo agoProbably manually lifted.
- nullstyle 5mo agoNo, i wouldn't be surprised how ignorant, selfish and deceitful other Americans are, you included. Mainstream isn't the same as right. Dude like this asshole would be fine with us keeping drinking fountains and lunch counters segregated, because thats how we've always done things. Remember folks, there’s no such thing as “too much perspective” and when you get it wrong you look like this silver -haired, privileged , rich as fuck bigot.
- bglusman 5mo agoYou can stand by things you said but also learn from them/from people’s responses to them…. For instance, you declare someone’s response virtue signaling… This hit me in a funny way, partly because it’s valid, it’s true, there is a lot of signaling that goes on you learn to see, virtue and otherwise… but also because of how insidious a criticism it is, because it reframes a debate away from correctness and towards who said it, whether they’re posturing… I think it’s a category error and an ad hominem attack to bring it up in a debate with someone. It doesn’t mean your wrong or can’t still beleive they were virtue signaling, if that’s what you mean by standing by what you said, but more than one thing can be true and that being your reaction is not honest engagement with the criticism… I don’t care think it’s about the joke very much, it’s not especially funny but not all humor has to be, and I don’t love their reaction to it either, but I think you’re confusing the feedback you’re getting here and there and probably elsewhere that your opinions should change… a sibling comment spoke of being right vs effective, and there’s something to that, but there’s also being right vs having a growth mindset, about being open to genuine conflict that sometimes brings new perspective or insight… But that doesn’t happen when one side shuts down the other with ad hominem attacks or uncharitable assumptions. To be fair, it doesn’t happen online in mailing lists or discussion forums at all very often. Maybe you only get these kinds of reactions here and when people seem more real to you in person you engage differently… I know most people engage differently online than in person, and different pseudonymously than using real names. Someone else here compared you to Linus, and there’s probably something there? There’s no doubt you brought some vision and insight to both these projects, as he did, but something changed for him some years back that was a growth moment and caused him new perspective on how he engaged with people online. The same could still happen for you, and it wouldn’t mean you were giving in to a “woke mind virus”, it would mean you were growing.
- sanity 5mo ago[flagged]
- bglusman 5mo agoI can’t respond to your response below but I fully agree “a lot of online criticism is not actually about truth-seeking or honest disagreement”, but I believe by ignoring the principle of charity, you undercut your own credibility and value. You may be able to show people how and where they’re in the wrong by demonstrating how THEY’VE made motive and framing the entire point, WITHOUT personally ascribing that as necessarily being a character weakness or hypocrisy or unconcern for the truth, but perhaps just a error on their part as well all make sometimes… just my $0.02
- foobarian 5mo agoLol. It's like Linus but crunchier
- sanity 5mo agoI'm told I kinda look like him too. There are worse people to be compared to.
- FEELmyAGI 5mo agoCurtis Yarvin is a much better comparison, what with the inscrutable decentralized network software and being a culture war crusader
- sanity 5mo agoSomeone digs up obscure 3-year-old posts to a defunct mailing list and suddenly I'm a "culture war crusader" sigh
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- DANmode 5mo ago“crunchier”?
- tardedmeme 5mo agoWhy is it always people like this who run projects that should be good? SimpleX, Xlibre, Freenet Locutus, that's three, and I'm sure there are more. Edit: do they all like the letter X, too? I think in this list it's just a coincidence, but maybe? Edit because I can't post a new comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46608061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46608061
- Timwi 5mo agoWild theory: maybe it's because in order to stay focused, passionate and dedicated to a project, you have to have a passionate mind dedicated to a narrower viewpoint. The more open-minded you are, the more likely you accept that detractors might have a point, and then increasingly realize that it's impossible to please everyone.
- sanity 5mo agoThank you for putting me in such great company!
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- SuperNinKenDo 5mo agoDisagreeable, passionate people are passionate about doing projects that go against the grain. It's really obvious to anybody actually asking the question instead of just being rhetorical and not giving it any actual thought. The answer is a commpetely obvious one, but one which makes some people uncomfortable, such that they'd rather not confront it, lest they have to confront its implications.
- raffraffraff 5mo agoIf his definition of woke mind virus is "identitarianism", then it's agree that it's fucking awful. But I wouldn't call it "woke mind virus". Identitarianism is a cancer, that has been fed via social media algorithms. We seem to have invented a machine for rewarding all of the wrong incentives. Who would have thought that phenomena like audience capture & polarised thought bubbles would be in the palm of the hand, directing thoughts and forming unbreakable opinions on an array of issues that otherwise wouldn't even be on the radar? I don't think that this is a left, right or in between thing. Identitarianism had infected the entire political spectrum. BTW: Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't take the Wikipedia definition of "identitarian movement" and identitarianism. I'm thinking entirely about identity politics. "If you're associated with person X you must be Y", or "If you believe A you must be a B". Highly policed thought bubbles. Ostracism. Cancelling. As a result, today, with technology that can enable mass communication of thought, there are important conversations that can no longer happen in society.
- dyauspitr 5mo agoAs your average progressive, I agree that I don’t like identarianism. When you have 8-15 years old putting a lot of effort into defining themselves as a “non binary, trans feminist pansexual” it gutturally feels wrong. These kids should not be wasting their time and energy on asinine pursuits like this at that age over performing well academically and over developing their physical prowess. I preferred the 00s where it was generally considered taboo to talk/ask about ethnicity/religion/sexuality. Unfortunately with that perspective, I end in in the same camp as unabashed bigots and real Nazis.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- raffraffraff 5mo agoYep. This situation doesn't do the "cancellers" much good either. What they want to do is eliminate the 'evil person' from society. Wipe them from social media. Block them. Even get them fired. Make them disappear. But here's the problem. This whole phenomenon is most prevalent in western style democracy. You cannot take that person's vote. You can engage with them and try to change their mind (but also be open to having your own mind changed too, otherwise it's a disingenuous enterprise). Or you can eject block and cancel. If anything, that just drives them further from your social/political group. Hence the person who you blocked and cancelled starts to look around at the other "so called evil people" outside the bubble, and realise that many of them might be refugees from pleasantville , just like you. You can only see your former bubble after your pushed or pulled out of it. Bubbles can suck people in, but they can also push people out into the gravitational pull of other bubbles.
- FergusArgyll 5mo agoSo that's what this is about! I wish instead of dancing around the issues and coming up with reasons to hate the project, ppl would just say "I don't like his politics" and he can say "I don't like yours either" and then any new readers will instantly get it
- imcritic 5mo ago[dead]