5 ms·

This effort seems less of a "Help us by buying our product" and more a plea for contributors as a FOSS effort, they want to do things like this: "Collabora + Fl

This effort seems less of a "Help us by buying our product" and more a plea for contributors as a FOSS effort, they want to do things like this: "Collabora + Flipper: Opening up the RK3576" https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/collabora-flipper-opening-up-the-rk3576.html https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/coll... , and are basically looking for developers and other technology enthusiasts to help them both with the projects themselves, and also try to network (socially) their way into convincing brands and companies to also open up themselves more: > We're asking the community to help us polish RK3576 support so we can build a truly open platform together. We'd be glad for any kind of contribution, not just code. For example, maybe you can find a way to convince Rockchip to open up that last blob. Then it seems like they're inviting anyone to participate in the entire development process too, should you be inclined: > Openness has always been our thing. With Flipper One, we want to go further — not just open-source code, but an open development process. We're publishing our task trackers, internal discussions, half-finished docs, and architectural debates. All the messy stuff companies usually keep behind closed doors. Seems the post mentions a bunch of stuff people can help with, CTRL+F "help" shows 16 hits even, but I am afraid even this does require actually reading the content. It kind of feels like if you can't be assed to read enough to figure out what they need help with, maybe you don't actually want to help them with even harder and involved stuff than that?

verelo 5mo ago
A good Tl;dr; is never a bad thing in a world where everyone is being pulled in different directions for attention. I agree with you for the most part, but after reading the post, it's a mess and could do with a clear summary at the top...hell, even an index of relevant sections and sub-headings.
- tombert 5mo ago
  I feel like especially when someone is asking something from me, they sort of have an obligation to make it clear, early on, what they're actually asking for. Tangential but related; when I used to work for BigCo, I would get old acquaintances message me on LinkedIn. They would act like they're really interested in my life and I'd interact, and then after a day or two they would ask me for a referral for a job, I'd do it, and then they wouldn't be all that interested in talking to me anymore. I wouldn't have had a big problem if they had just messaged me and asked for the favor, but I do find it pretty irritating that they're pretending to be my friend just to get a favor. I don't need more friends, I have plenty. Hitting the "refer" button and uploading a resume takes ten seconds of work on my end, but wasting my time with a pretend conversation takes considerably longer. Nowadays when I ask for a favor from a friend or acquaintance I pretty much immediately ask for it. I might still want to converse with them afterward, but I figure it's better to lay my intentions out on the table immediately so there's no false expectations.
  - TheGRS 5mo ago
    That is the way to do it. And IMO it should extend to all business communication. I hate getting "hey" in my DMs with no other context. Like...."hey? whats up?". Just get to the point, the day is too busy for this.
    - tombert 5mo ago
      Yeah, if you're doing something asynchronous, exploit that fact! When I message someone on Slack, I usually do something like "Hey! I was wondering if you could help me with..." There's no need to add an extra blocking factor with this. There's a manifesto for this: https://nohello.net/en/ https://nohello.net/en/
mrandish 5mo ago
> to help us polish RK3576 support Having a few various RPi's (as one does), when they've been out of stock, I've looked into the huge variety of similar SBCs (OrangePi, etc) which can be even faster, with more ports and features for around the same money as an equivalent RPi. Many are powered by various RockChip SoCs, which extend up to desktop replacement-level, but the Linux driver support is usually lacking in some important way. It's not Linux's fault, it's a small group of volunteers struggling with little manufacturer support or documentation. I don't get why RockChip doesn't budget the money in the business plan to fund full driver support for at least some of their more capable chips. I guess maybe too many of these chips are used in non-OS contexts to be worth it?
- jmole 5mo ago
  I've had the same frustration with rockchip, but if you search the lkml you'll find that they are indeed trying their best: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/?q=rock-chips.com https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/?q=rock-chips.com the biggest issue is that actually contributing to upstream is an *incredibly* difficult and painful process.
  - greatgib 5mo ago
    Maybe also because they don't release proper specs?
    - jmole 5mo ago
      Silicon is a dog eat dog game. You release too much and you get sued for patent infringement by NPEs or competitors copy your designs and run with them. There is basically no upside unless you are running a charity like Raspberry Pi. Margins are incredibly thin unless you're on the bleeding edge. It's not an easy business. You need to move millions and millions of chips to make a profit, and that means your FAEs are working directly with companies who are actually paying you for chips instead of trying to write perfect documentation for the open source community.
- monocasa 5mo ago
ianstormtaylor 5mo ago
If anyone’s wondering why this replier is so angry, it’s because they spent a lot of time arguing with people further down the comment section over whether this article is too heavily written by AI. (I'd say it is.) It probably irked them to find the top comment had no mention of AI, but is still getting at the same root problem… the article is 2-3x longer than it could be, with lots of rambling and repetition, so it makes for a frustrating read.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  > If anyone’s wondering why this replier is so angry Angry? I'm guessing it's the last part that made me seem angry, I'm not though, just human, and tired of people who say they want to help yet seemingly reading is too much. A bit of straightforward language seems more effective at communicating this, than dancing around the issue. And why on earth would I care if the top comment mentions AI? I don't even read HN comments in the "points" order, I read comments in chronological order... Why the vendetta, did I say something annoying to you in the other thread or what's going on?
  - refulgentis 5mo ago
    They're responding to the same question I had, and others surely had. Namely, we see a AI DDOS'ing blog entry, 20 pages text, 35 with images, thats a mishmash of specs and requesting help with...Linux kernel coding!? to support their selected SoC? For hardware they're already accepting preorders for? Then, someone reframing confusion as many people failing to read, which is about the most incurious and thought short-circuiting idea possible, even before it is used in discussion. This question is only more forward in my mind after noting you're taking things personally. (vendetta?!) It is worth noting this is the second time in 18 hours HN is dealing with their AI spam. Yesterday's was a preorder page with multiple "needs verification" and "needs clarification" markers, including in the darn spec sheet. (via ChatGPT's system prompt for non-coding writing tasks)
    - embedding-shape 5mo ago
      > as well as why you're taking things personally (vendetta? really?) Yeah, if you bring up completely unrelated stuff I've said elsewhere in a different context, to bring up where it's off-topic, then how is that anything else than personal, even the assumption about what feelings I'm feeling? Reply to what I said in that thread, if it's so damn important for you that I read what you write. Fine, I understand the two of you really, really want to discuss if this article is AI or not, and how much of it is AI, and what what other Flipper pages were submitted to HN, but do you really need to discuss that in every sub-thread in this submission, can't that conversation happen where it happened before?
hluska 5mo ago
> It kind of feels like if you can't be assed to read enough to figure out what they need help with, maybe you don't actually want to help them with even harder and involved stuff than that? Or it kind of feels like if a project can’t be ‘assed’ to communicate clearly, that’s an issue.

verelo 5mo ago

A good Tl;dr; is never a bad thing in a world where everyone is being pulled in different directions for attention. I agree with you for the most part, but after reading the post, it's a mess and could do with a clear summary at the top...hell, even an index of relevant sections and sub-headings.

tombert 5mo ago
I feel like especially when someone is asking something from me, they sort of have an obligation to make it clear, early on, what they're actually asking for. Tangential but related; when I used to work for BigCo, I would get old acquaintances message me on LinkedIn. They would act like they're really interested in my life and I'd interact, and then after a day or two they would ask me for a referral for a job, I'd do it, and then they wouldn't be all that interested in talking to me anymore. I wouldn't have had a big problem if they had just messaged me and asked for the favor, but I do find it pretty irritating that they're pretending to be my friend just to get a favor. I don't need more friends, I have plenty. Hitting the "refer" button and uploading a resume takes ten seconds of work on my end, but wasting my time with a pretend conversation takes considerably longer. Nowadays when I ask for a favor from a friend or acquaintance I pretty much immediately ask for it. I might still want to converse with them afterward, but I figure it's better to lay my intentions out on the table immediately so there's no false expectations.
- TheGRS 5mo ago
  That is the way to do it. And IMO it should extend to all business communication. I hate getting "hey" in my DMs with no other context. Like...."hey? whats up?". Just get to the point, the day is too busy for this.
  - tombert 5mo ago
    Yeah, if you're doing something asynchronous, exploit that fact! When I message someone on Slack, I usually do something like "Hey! I was wondering if you could help me with..." There's no need to add an extra blocking factor with this. There's a manifesto for this: https://nohello.net/en/ https://nohello.net/en/

mrandish 5mo ago

> to help us polish RK3576 support Having a few various RPi's (as one does), when they've been out of stock, I've looked into the huge variety of similar SBCs (OrangePi, etc) which can be even faster, with more ports and features for around the same money as an equivalent RPi. Many are powered by various RockChip SoCs, which extend up to desktop replacement-level, but the Linux driver support is usually lacking in some important way. It's not Linux's fault, it's a small group of volunteers struggling with little manufacturer support or documentation. I don't get why RockChip doesn't budget the money in the business plan to fund full driver support for at least some of their more capable chips. I guess maybe too many of these chips are used in non-OS contexts to be worth it?

jmole 5mo ago
I've had the same frustration with rockchip, but if you search the lkml you'll find that they are indeed trying their best: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/?q=rock-chips.com https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/?q=rock-chips.com the biggest issue is that actually contributing to upstream is an *incredibly* difficult and painful process.
- greatgib 5mo ago
  Maybe also because they don't release proper specs?
  - jmole 5mo ago
    Silicon is a dog eat dog game. You release too much and you get sued for patent infringement by NPEs or competitors copy your designs and run with them. There is basically no upside unless you are running a charity like Raspberry Pi. Margins are incredibly thin unless you're on the bleeding edge. It's not an easy business. You need to move millions and millions of chips to make a profit, and that means your FAEs are working directly with companies who are actually paying you for chips instead of trying to write perfect documentation for the open source community.
monocasa 5mo ago

ianstormtaylor 5mo ago

If anyone’s wondering why this replier is so angry, it’s because they spent a lot of time arguing with people further down the comment section over whether this article is too heavily written by AI. (I'd say it is.) It probably irked them to find the top comment had no mention of AI, but is still getting at the same root problem… the article is 2-3x longer than it could be, with lots of rambling and repetition, so it makes for a frustrating read.

embedding-shape 5mo ago
> If anyone’s wondering why this replier is so angry Angry? I'm guessing it's the last part that made me seem angry, I'm not though, just human, and tired of people who say they want to help yet seemingly reading is too much. A bit of straightforward language seems more effective at communicating this, than dancing around the issue. And why on earth would I care if the top comment mentions AI? I don't even read HN comments in the "points" order, I read comments in chronological order... Why the vendetta, did I say something annoying to you in the other thread or what's going on?
- refulgentis 5mo ago
  They're responding to the same question I had, and others surely had. Namely, we see a AI DDOS'ing blog entry, 20 pages text, 35 with images, thats a mishmash of specs and requesting help with...Linux kernel coding!? to support their selected SoC? For hardware they're already accepting preorders for? Then, someone reframing confusion as many people failing to read, which is about the most incurious and thought short-circuiting idea possible, even before it is used in discussion. This question is only more forward in my mind after noting you're taking things personally. (vendetta?!) It is worth noting this is the second time in 18 hours HN is dealing with their AI spam. Yesterday's was a preorder page with multiple "needs verification" and "needs clarification" markers, including in the darn spec sheet. (via ChatGPT's system prompt for non-coding writing tasks)
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    > as well as why you're taking things personally (vendetta? really?) Yeah, if you bring up completely unrelated stuff I've said elsewhere in a different context, to bring up where it's off-topic, then how is that anything else than personal, even the assumption about what feelings I'm feeling? Reply to what I said in that thread, if it's so damn important for you that I read what you write. Fine, I understand the two of you really, really want to discuss if this article is AI or not, and how much of it is AI, and what what other Flipper pages were submitted to HN, but do you really need to discuss that in every sub-thread in this submission, can't that conversation happen where it happened before?

hluska 5mo ago

> It kind of feels like if you can't be assed to read enough to figure out what they need help with, maybe you don't actually want to help them with even harder and involved stuff than that? Or it kind of feels like if a project can’t be ‘assed’ to communicate clearly, that’s an issue.