5 ms·

Never say never. Germany seems to have recovered quite a lot of trust following World War 2, to provide an extreme example of bad foreign policy.

iamtheworstdev 5mo ago
they're also on the cusp of throwing it all away, again.
- HerbManic 5mo ago
  It is wild seeing the elctorial maps of Germany and you can almost exactly recreate the East-West split. Decades later and it is coming back to haunt them.
  - apothegm 5mo ago
    Tbf, the east/west split is the one part that wasn’t the Nazis’ fault unless indirectly as a consequence of starting and losing a second World War in a row.
  - tommit 5mo ago
    tbf the east-west split never really stopped haunting Germany. its not like it came suddenly. there are a lot of systemic errors that lead to this.
guyzero 5mo ago
Do you think the US is going to have Nuremberg trials? Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened?
- MisterTea 5mo ago
  Never say never. > Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened? About half of the people I know who voted for Trump this past election have deep regrets.
  - xethos 5mo ago
    Do they regret voting Republican, or do they regret voting for this particular Republican candidate?
    - mindslight 5mo ago
      This is the crux. Trump is simultaneously a wholesale departure from political norms, but also merely a culmination of decades of reactionary talk radio preaching "Death to America" but then backing it off just enough for people to go to the polls and vote for "their" candidate. Trump's second term should be the end of the Republican party. But if Bush II is an indication, the pattern was that while people gradually came around to seeing what a bad idea the Iraq War was and whatnot, they merely cooled off for a few years but then were right back at it getting fooled again a slightly different way. How much of the support for Trump was basically recycled criticism of the Iraq War (ie of the Republican establishment) ? And yet here we are now, with a nice shiny new quagmire (assuming it isn't an outright loss). fwiw I'm a libertarian so while I actually agree with much of the criticism, it galls me even more how people can start with very individual-liberty-centric criticisms, but then somehow gleefully jump behind supporting authoritarianism when it can be their turn at the trough.
  - Steltek 5mo ago
    I have regrets when I say something dumb or drive through an intersection on a not-quite-yellow light. Innocent people, including children, are dead. Republicans have done irreparable harm to this country on every imaginable level: civil liberties, trade, global power, economics. Open and naked corruption is so off the charts it can only be described with comparisons to the post-Soviet era. "Regret" is, quite frankly, insulting.
  - jmye 5mo ago
    I hope they are suffering deeply for it. They got exactly what they voted for.
  - rjrjrjrj 5mo ago
    "Deep regrets" L-fucking-O-L What did they expect?
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaypath 5mo ago
  [flagged]
- throwawaypath 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - guyzero 5mo ago
    [flagged]
  - AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
    I don't disagree. The Democrats believed their "permanent Democratic majority" schtick, and enacted a bunch of things that much of the country deeply disagreed with. But we also need a national reckoning on ICE's excessive use of force, DOGE, using the DOJ to prosecute political opponents, the financial irresponsibility of the "Big Beautiful Bill", the attack on the Capitol, the rest of the attempt to undermine the results of the 2020 elections, the tariffs by executive order, the threats to Canada and Greenland...
    - throwawaypath 5mo ago
      I also don't disagree, we need a national reckoning on all the things!
      - throwawaypath 5mo ago
        This is my now flagged original comment. Upset some people: >Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened? You're witnessing one. This is the national reckoning on open borders, DEI/wokeism, etc.
kakacik 5mo ago
Through selfless deeds, hard work and admitting their failures to the fullest, for generations till now. Somehow I don't see that happening easily with american ego
- genxy 5mo ago
  They didn't tho. West Germany was still governed by ex Nazi politicians and bureaucrats after the war. This was the primary reason that the Red Army Faction formed and carried out its attacks. The Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) was staffed by many ex SS officers. Nuremberg Trails are continuously trotted out as an example of a system that works, but 200k people are estimated to have participated in crimes against humanity, of which only around 6700 were convicted, or 3.3%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Saevecke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Saevecke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dickopf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dickopf https://www.waz.de/politik/article4512500/die-braunen-jahre-des-bka.html https://www.waz.de/politik/article4512500/die-braunen-jahre-... https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/history-research-third-reich-ww2/former-ss-officers-bundeskriminalamt-bka-844469/ https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/history-research-third-reich-... https://www.jvl.levit.dev/the-prosecution-of-war-criminals https://www.jvl.levit.dev/the-prosecution-of-war-criminals https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/14/europe/germany-nazi-war-trials-grm-intl/index.html https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/14/europe/germany-nazi-war-trials...

iamtheworstdev 5mo ago

they're also on the cusp of throwing it all away, again.

HerbManic 5mo ago
It is wild seeing the elctorial maps of Germany and you can almost exactly recreate the East-West split. Decades later and it is coming back to haunt them.
- apothegm 5mo ago
  Tbf, the east/west split is the one part that wasn’t the Nazis’ fault unless indirectly as a consequence of starting and losing a second World War in a row.
- tommit 5mo ago
  tbf the east-west split never really stopped haunting Germany. its not like it came suddenly. there are a lot of systemic errors that lead to this.

guyzero 5mo ago

Do you think the US is going to have Nuremberg trials? Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened?

MisterTea 5mo ago
Never say never. > Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened? About half of the people I know who voted for Trump this past election have deep regrets.
- xethos 5mo ago
  Do they regret voting Republican, or do they regret voting for this particular Republican candidate?
  - mindslight 5mo ago
    This is the crux. Trump is simultaneously a wholesale departure from political norms, but also merely a culmination of decades of reactionary talk radio preaching "Death to America" but then backing it off just enough for people to go to the polls and vote for "their" candidate. Trump's second term should be the end of the Republican party. But if Bush II is an indication, the pattern was that while people gradually came around to seeing what a bad idea the Iraq War was and whatnot, they merely cooled off for a few years but then were right back at it getting fooled again a slightly different way. How much of the support for Trump was basically recycled criticism of the Iraq War (ie of the Republican establishment) ? And yet here we are now, with a nice shiny new quagmire (assuming it isn't an outright loss). fwiw I'm a libertarian so while I actually agree with much of the criticism, it galls me even more how people can start with very individual-liberty-centric criticisms, but then somehow gleefully jump behind supporting authoritarianism when it can be their turn at the trough.
- Steltek 5mo ago
  I have regrets when I say something dumb or drive through an intersection on a not-quite-yellow light. Innocent people, including children, are dead. Republicans have done irreparable harm to this country on every imaginable level: civil liberties, trade, global power, economics. Open and naked corruption is so off the charts it can only be described with comparisons to the post-Soviet era. "Regret" is, quite frankly, insulting.
- jmye 5mo ago
  I hope they are suffering deeply for it. They got exactly what they voted for.
- rjrjrjrj 5mo ago
  "Deep regrets" L-fucking-O-L What did they expect?
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
throwawaypath 5mo ago
[flagged]
throwawaypath 5mo ago
[flagged]
- guyzero 5mo ago
  [flagged]
- AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
  I don't disagree. The Democrats believed their "permanent Democratic majority" schtick, and enacted a bunch of things that much of the country deeply disagreed with. But we also need a national reckoning on ICE's excessive use of force, DOGE, using the DOJ to prosecute political opponents, the financial irresponsibility of the "Big Beautiful Bill", the attack on the Capitol, the rest of the attempt to undermine the results of the 2020 elections, the tariffs by executive order, the threats to Canada and Greenland...
  - throwawaypath 5mo ago
    I also don't disagree, we need a national reckoning on all the things!
    - throwawaypath 5mo ago
      This is my now flagged original comment. Upset some people: >Do you think there will be a deep national reckoning about what happened? You're witnessing one. This is the national reckoning on open borders, DEI/wokeism, etc.

kakacik 5mo ago

Through selfless deeds, hard work and admitting their failures to the fullest, for generations till now. Somehow I don't see that happening easily with american ego

genxy 5mo ago
They didn't tho. West Germany was still governed by ex Nazi politicians and bureaucrats after the war. This was the primary reason that the Red Army Faction formed and carried out its attacks. The Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) was staffed by many ex SS officers. Nuremberg Trails are continuously trotted out as an example of a system that works, but 200k people are estimated to have participated in crimes against humanity, of which only around 6700 were convicted, or 3.3%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Saevecke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Saevecke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dickopf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dickopf https://www.waz.de/politik/article4512500/die-braunen-jahre-des-bka.html https://www.waz.de/politik/article4512500/die-braunen-jahre-... https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/history-research-third-reich-ww2/former-ss-officers-bundeskriminalamt-bka-844469/ https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/history-research-third-reich-... https://www.jvl.levit.dev/the-prosecution-of-war-criminals https://www.jvl.levit.dev/the-prosecution-of-war-criminals https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/14/europe/germany-nazi-war-trials-grm-intl/index.html https://us.cnn.com/2018/12/14/europe/germany-nazi-war-trials...