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Their off-time work is contractually owned by the company? Is this true for most game development companies? I have never heard of that happening before. Is tha

Their off-time work is contractually owned by the company? Is this true for most game development companies? I have never heard of that happening before. Is that even legal? In the two positions/companies that I've worked with/for, I've been able to moonlight, as long as it didn't compete directly with the company (in laymens, non-lawyer terms). Is this a common detail with game devs? With most jobs? It sounds awful.

thisone 14y ago
I've seen this mentioned off hand, occasionally, by developers, not necessarily game developers. My contract where I work prohibits moonlighting, because they want your soul (really, they even try to specify how excited I should be every day). They even got their knickers in a twist when they learned I work on my own projects and help out friends and OSS, in my own time, on my own equipment, but there's not thing one they can do about it. I've also had a friend be told that he would need to give up his personal, part time, income generating website in order to take a particular job (not here). The website business was not in competition with or even the same general industry as the job.
- philbarr 14y ago
  Yes, I've had this in my contract with every job I've had except my current one. My current place was set up by developers though and I think the contract reflects that. It actually specifically states that I can do stuff in my own time as long as it doesn't affect my normal work.
- flyinRyan 14y ago
  >My contract where I work prohibits moonlighting, because they want your soul (really, they even try to specify how excited I should be every day). Personally, I would just ignore clauses like this. I know of no examples of stuff like this ever being held up in court. At least not at our level. You might have to worry if you were an executive or something.
  - thisone 14y ago
    Because I know the guys who wrote the contracts up, I know the reason this is in there. They really believe that if you are working on something then you should be working on something for them 24/7 (without overtime, of course) {long personal crap fest story here} I think these contracts, for anyone, junior, senior, or exec, are quite unproductive. Outside stimulation makes us, programmers and designers, better at what we do. If I only ever worked on work related projects, I wouldn't be able to provide the kind of input I'm paid for. The contract writers know this, when they stop to think about it, but they are very scared.
    - flyinRyan 14y ago
      I appreciate why places might do it. But it's irrelevant what they believe and slavery clauses aren't going to be enforceable even if I sign it in my own blood. What these guys really need to worry about is invalid clauses invalidating the whole document.
      - sukuriant 14y ago
        Unenforcable statements. If I were offered a job by a given company, could I go take that part of the contract to a lawyer and see if that part of the contract was not-enforceable, and then go off and work in my spare time, holding the lawyer on reserve until the day when they sued me? Because, if I had requirements like that in my contract, I don't think I could work for that company, even if I were in very real need of money. I have entrepreneal plans of my own, and they'd start out as just moonlighting.
        flyinRyan 14y ago
        They're probably not going to try to sue you until you're making enough to be able to defend yourself.
flyinRyan 14y ago
Companies will put all kinds of things in their contracts. Even things that aren't binding. If you get just 10% of your workers to believe it's enforceable, you win.
bsenftner 14y ago
At one studio job, where I was in my last and final interview to be a director - "really, a formality" they said, "you're good as hired"... and at that interview they informed me they knew about a patent I own, and said all I had to do was sign the patent over to them and I'd be hired. WTF?! I told them "no", they said "no job" and I said "good by!" And who was that studio? Vivendi Universal.
- codeonfire 14y ago
  Why didn't you just name a price in the multiple millions of dollars? Even dumb directors understand money.
cmccabe 14y ago
Their off-time work is contractually owned by the company? Is this true for most game development companies? It depends. If you live in California, you are protected by the California Code, section 2870. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&group=02001-03000&file=2870-2872&ei=X9OvUIOTKJDhiwKbtYC4BQ&usg=AFQjCNFyDY4Cnmg0t9ZAMKXJZT6MZARNTg http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&#3... It's a bit difficult to summarize, but basically something you do on your own time, without using any equipment supplied by your employer, that is not related to something your employer is planning on doing, and doesn't use any trade secrets, can be yours even if you are a salaried employee. The "trade secrets" clause is probably the hardest to meet, since it's easy to claim that something was a trade secret in retrospect. If you work for a megacorp, the "planning on doing" bit may be problematic as well. You almost certainly cannot use these protections to work on games in your spare time if you are a game developer. But it can be helpful for working on unrelated projects, including open source ones. If you really want to do your own thing, contracting provides strong protections. If you live in another state, you probably are bound by whatever pound-me-in-the-ass contract your employer drew up, which almost certainly assigns copyright and patent of everything you do to them.
teamonkey 14y ago
I've worked for two of the big games publishers and yes, they both included this clause as part of the contract to say that they own anything you create out of hours. Which is ironic, given the amount of work I've done for them out of hours.

thisone 14y ago

I've seen this mentioned off hand, occasionally, by developers, not necessarily game developers. My contract where I work prohibits moonlighting, because they want your soul (really, they even try to specify how excited I should be every day). They even got their knickers in a twist when they learned I work on my own projects and help out friends and OSS, in my own time, on my own equipment, but there's not thing one they can do about it. I've also had a friend be told that he would need to give up his personal, part time, income generating website in order to take a particular job (not here). The website business was not in competition with or even the same general industry as the job.

philbarr 14y ago
Yes, I've had this in my contract with every job I've had except my current one. My current place was set up by developers though and I think the contract reflects that. It actually specifically states that I can do stuff in my own time as long as it doesn't affect my normal work.
flyinRyan 14y ago
>My contract where I work prohibits moonlighting, because they want your soul (really, they even try to specify how excited I should be every day). Personally, I would just ignore clauses like this. I know of no examples of stuff like this ever being held up in court. At least not at our level. You might have to worry if you were an executive or something.
- thisone 14y ago
  Because I know the guys who wrote the contracts up, I know the reason this is in there. They really believe that if you are working on something then you should be working on something for them 24/7 (without overtime, of course) {long personal crap fest story here} I think these contracts, for anyone, junior, senior, or exec, are quite unproductive. Outside stimulation makes us, programmers and designers, better at what we do. If I only ever worked on work related projects, I wouldn't be able to provide the kind of input I'm paid for. The contract writers know this, when they stop to think about it, but they are very scared.
  - flyinRyan 14y ago
    I appreciate why places might do it. But it's irrelevant what they believe and slavery clauses aren't going to be enforceable even if I sign it in my own blood. What these guys really need to worry about is invalid clauses invalidating the whole document.
    - sukuriant 14y ago
      Unenforcable statements. If I were offered a job by a given company, could I go take that part of the contract to a lawyer and see if that part of the contract was not-enforceable, and then go off and work in my spare time, holding the lawyer on reserve until the day when they sued me? Because, if I had requirements like that in my contract, I don't think I could work for that company, even if I were in very real need of money. I have entrepreneal plans of my own, and they'd start out as just moonlighting.
      - flyinRyan 14y ago
        They're probably not going to try to sue you until you're making enough to be able to defend yourself.

flyinRyan 14y ago

Companies will put all kinds of things in their contracts. Even things that aren't binding. If you get just 10% of your workers to believe it's enforceable, you win.

bsenftner 14y ago

At one studio job, where I was in my last and final interview to be a director - "really, a formality" they said, "you're good as hired"... and at that interview they informed me they knew about a patent I own, and said all I had to do was sign the patent over to them and I'd be hired. WTF?! I told them "no", they said "no job" and I said "good by!" And who was that studio? Vivendi Universal.

codeonfire 14y ago
Why didn't you just name a price in the multiple millions of dollars? Even dumb directors understand money.

cmccabe 14y ago

Their off-time work is contractually owned by the company? Is this true for most game development companies? It depends. If you live in California, you are protected by the California Code, section 2870. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&group=02001-03000&file=2870-2872&ei=X9OvUIOTKJDhiwKbtYC4BQ&usg=AFQjCNFyDY4Cnmg0t9ZAMKXJZT6MZARNTg http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&#3... It's a bit difficult to summarize, but basically something you do on your own time, without using any equipment supplied by your employer, that is not related to something your employer is planning on doing, and doesn't use any trade secrets, can be yours even if you are a salaried employee. The "trade secrets" clause is probably the hardest to meet, since it's easy to claim that something was a trade secret in retrospect. If you work for a megacorp, the "planning on doing" bit may be problematic as well. You almost certainly cannot use these protections to work on games in your spare time if you are a game developer. But it can be helpful for working on unrelated projects, including open source ones. If you really want to do your own thing, contracting provides strong protections. If you live in another state, you probably are bound by whatever pound-me-in-the-ass contract your employer drew up, which almost certainly assigns copyright and patent of everything you do to them.

teamonkey 14y ago

I've worked for two of the big games publishers and yes, they both included this clause as part of the contract to say that they own anything you create out of hours. Which is ironic, given the amount of work I've done for them out of hours.