6 ms·

I trust my government (Switzerland) way more to do the thing that is right for the people and the law then some private company that has the primary goal of mak

I trust my government (Switzerland) way more to do the thing that is right for the people and the law then some private company that has the primary goal of making money. It doesn't mean that governments don't make mistakes but the primary goal is to serve its people. That is what government is for in a functioning democracy. A functioning government is of the people for the people.

JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
> I trust my government (Switzerland) I do, too. I’m not sure I trust Brussels.
- surgical_fire 5mo ago
  I certainly trust the EU a lot more than I trust US corporations.
  - Lionga 5mo ago
    Considering the head of EZB is a convicted criminal with, lets call it interesting, letters to the convicted criminal Sarkozy I am not sure what is plague and what cholera.
    - dvfjsdhgfv 5mo ago
      Taken into account than of two convicted criminals, Sarkozy went to prison and will probably be sent there again, whereas Trump is running a big country, I'm pretty sure which is which.
    - wsng 5mo ago
      Lagarde is not a convicted criminal. She was convicted for negligence, but this is not a criminal conviction.
      - throwaway2037 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        Fnoord 5mo ago
        Why use a LLM when you got Wikipedia [1]. Which references an article in The Guardian [2]: > A French court convicted the head of the International Monetary Fund and former government minister, who had faced a €15,000 (£12,600) fine and up to a year in prison. But it decided she should not be punished and that the conviction would not constitute a criminal record. On Monday evening the IMF gave her its full support. > The verdict came as a surprise as even the public prosecutor had admitted the evidence against Lagarde was “weak” during a five-day trial last week. Jean-Claude Marin told the court Lagarde’s actions fell into the category of politics and not criminality and called for her to be acquitted. If the public prosecutor admits the evidence is weak, then I take that at face value. I'm open to evidence of the contrary, but without such, I just have to assume the case was weak. It does strike me as odd that she was convicted. I suppose the evidence wasn't negligible. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lagarde#Conviction_of_negligence_in_allowing_the_misuse_of_public_funds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lagarde#Conviction_o... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/christine-lagarde-avoids-sentence-despite-guilty-verdict-in-negligence-trial https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/christine-laga...
        throwaway2037 5mo ago
        Hat tip. I did not think to check Wiki for this issue. Thanks. I agree: The comment from the public prosecutor is excellent. To me that is a very strong sign of a well-balanced, highly functioning democracy (and its legal system).
    - Fnoord 5mo ago
      Lets see. Gerhard Schroeder, fled to RU. Nicolas Sarkozy, convicted. Silvio Berlusconi, convicted. Geert Wilders, convicted. Slobodan Milošević, convicted. Jean-Marie Le Pen, convicted. Marine Le Pen, convicted. Donald Trump, convicted (pardoned everyone who attempted a coup on Jan 6 2021). Victor Orban, surely he'll get convicted. Benjamin N., Vladimir P.: wanted by ICC. (This excludes cases like Jan Maršálek / Wirecard fraud / GRU spy. Also, have a peak at all the cleaning Zelenski's government had to do, including in his inner circle.) Seems we in Europe at least are attempting to uphold the rule of law. I can't say the same for US corporations or US government, given the current administration. That being said... can we stop voting for these narcissistic criminals? Thank you in advance.
      - niemandhier 5mo ago
        I met Mr Schröder on Saturday in the Opera. I can therefore vouch that he is not in Russia.
      - ekianjo 5mo ago
        > attempted a coup funny everyone forgot to bring guns for the coup
      - philipallstar 5mo ago
        Having seen some of the footage, that is the oddest coup attempt I've ever seen. Wasn't the only violence a police officer shooting a woman climbing into a window?
  - izacus 5mo ago
    I even trust EU more than the local corrupt country governments.
  - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
    Oh, 100%. But the choice here is between European banks and a state-run Pix equivalent.
  - ekianjo 5mo ago
    Do they deserve your trust?
    - surgical_fire 5mo ago
      The government? Either the national government or the EU get legitimacy by being democratic instructions. That doesn't mean they get blind faith, it is healthy to scrutinize their actions. US corporations on the other hand get only my contempt and scorn.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
marssaxman 5mo ago
I hope I get to live in such a place some day.
- mothballed 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - kuboble 5mo ago
    I think this focuses on the wrong issues. Tin my observation the main advantage of swiss system is the institution of the referendum. It means that every major decision is decided by the people. The elected government decides on the 99.9% other issues. The consequence of this system is that absolute majority of public discourse focuses on the issues and problems and not party affiliation. So e.g. the most consequential election isn't the one where you have to choose the guy who will make everything great again, but e.g. the referendum if the country should spend billions over the next decades on the new tunnel under alps instead of other infrastructure projects.
    - mothballed 5mo ago
      You're completely ignoring that the Swiss system itself was a cultural output of that voting block, one they've kept remarkably insular, and with the remnants of this system going back to something like at least the middle ages. And then lucked out in many ways in WWII where most of Europe did not. The system didn't make the 90-95% euro voting block, the 90-95% white euro voting block made and support the Swiss direct democracy system itself in the context of finding it functional for their relatively insular society. You can't just ramrod a cultural output into other cultures and expect it to work or even expect different voting demographics who might have individually accepted direct democracy to continue to do so once put in a more diverse country. They tried democracy in Somalia and it worked worse by most measured metrics (including economic) than the xeer system of tribal hearings and decentralized governance for which their culture had adapted.
      - 5mo ago
rozap 5mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- _DeadFred_ 5mo ago
  Dang has stated these sorts of comments do not belong on HN news. Discussion of specifics are fine, but nationalist slurs are not. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48100358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48100358 Edit: wow, my bad. HN really loves low effort nationalistic slurs as entire comments now.
  - switchbak 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - ExtraRoulette 5mo ago
      I'm American. Definitely did not think this was a slur.
    - _DeadFred_ 5mo ago
      I strongly disagree. Substitute with 'the Chinese mind can't comprehend' or 'the Palestinian mind can't comprehend' or 'the Muslim mind can't comprehend' or 'the African American mind can't comprehend' or 'the immigrant mind can't comprehend'. Obviously that would be a slur and not an acceptable way to phrase a point. HN rightly didn't allow these type of generalization comments against Russians after it invaded Ukraine. HN rightly doesn't allow these types of generalization comments at Palestinians. It's wild to me the different standard applied lately to similar comments towards Americans. Definitely a discourse erosion/strain going on on this site when it comes to certain topics/nationalities/generalization of peoples and stereotyping/labeling. In the link I gave dang set the rule that these sort of comments applied towards a nationality aren't acceptable here and an instance of dang actively stepping in to enforce it.
unethical_ban 5mo ago
I assume the concern is more about moving to mandated digital currency where every transaction is tracked by the government, no cash allowed.
7tflutter7 5mo ago
Trust Switzerland? Protonmail is literally fleeing Switzerland. You now have to upload Government ID to use any online service with more than 5k users!! They are also now requiring backdoors (Article 50a). Literally the end of privacy! It's honestly depressing no one talks about this, or even knows about this.

JumpCrisscross 5mo ago

> I trust my government (Switzerland) I do, too. I’m not sure I trust Brussels.

surgical_fire 5mo ago
I certainly trust the EU a lot more than I trust US corporations.
- Lionga 5mo ago
  Considering the head of EZB is a convicted criminal with, lets call it interesting, letters to the convicted criminal Sarkozy I am not sure what is plague and what cholera.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 5mo ago
    Taken into account than of two convicted criminals, Sarkozy went to prison and will probably be sent there again, whereas Trump is running a big country, I'm pretty sure which is which.
  - wsng 5mo ago
    Lagarde is not a convicted criminal. She was convicted for negligence, but this is not a criminal conviction.
    - throwaway2037 5mo ago
      [flagged]
      - Fnoord 5mo ago
        Why use a LLM when you got Wikipedia [1]. Which references an article in The Guardian [2]: > A French court convicted the head of the International Monetary Fund and former government minister, who had faced a €15,000 (£12,600) fine and up to a year in prison. But it decided she should not be punished and that the conviction would not constitute a criminal record. On Monday evening the IMF gave her its full support. > The verdict came as a surprise as even the public prosecutor had admitted the evidence against Lagarde was “weak” during a five-day trial last week. Jean-Claude Marin told the court Lagarde’s actions fell into the category of politics and not criminality and called for her to be acquitted. If the public prosecutor admits the evidence is weak, then I take that at face value. I'm open to evidence of the contrary, but without such, I just have to assume the case was weak. It does strike me as odd that she was convicted. I suppose the evidence wasn't negligible. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lagarde#Conviction_of_negligence_in_allowing_the_misuse_of_public_funds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lagarde#Conviction_o... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/christine-lagarde-avoids-sentence-despite-guilty-verdict-in-negligence-trial https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/christine-laga...
        throwaway2037 5mo ago
        Hat tip. I did not think to check Wiki for this issue. Thanks. I agree: The comment from the public prosecutor is excellent. To me that is a very strong sign of a well-balanced, highly functioning democracy (and its legal system).
  - Fnoord 5mo ago
    Lets see. Gerhard Schroeder, fled to RU. Nicolas Sarkozy, convicted. Silvio Berlusconi, convicted. Geert Wilders, convicted. Slobodan Milošević, convicted. Jean-Marie Le Pen, convicted. Marine Le Pen, convicted. Donald Trump, convicted (pardoned everyone who attempted a coup on Jan 6 2021). Victor Orban, surely he'll get convicted. Benjamin N., Vladimir P.: wanted by ICC. (This excludes cases like Jan Maršálek / Wirecard fraud / GRU spy. Also, have a peak at all the cleaning Zelenski's government had to do, including in his inner circle.) Seems we in Europe at least are attempting to uphold the rule of law. I can't say the same for US corporations or US government, given the current administration. That being said... can we stop voting for these narcissistic criminals? Thank you in advance.
    - niemandhier 5mo ago
      I met Mr Schröder on Saturday in the Opera. I can therefore vouch that he is not in Russia.
    - ekianjo 5mo ago
      > attempted a coup funny everyone forgot to bring guns for the coup
    - philipallstar 5mo ago
      Having seen some of the footage, that is the oddest coup attempt I've ever seen. Wasn't the only violence a police officer shooting a woman climbing into a window?
- izacus 5mo ago
  I even trust EU more than the local corrupt country governments.
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  Oh, 100%. But the choice here is between European banks and a state-run Pix equivalent.
- ekianjo 5mo ago
  Do they deserve your trust?
  - surgical_fire 5mo ago
    The government? Either the national government or the EU get legitimacy by being democratic instructions. That doesn't mean they get blind faith, it is healthy to scrutinize their actions. US corporations on the other hand get only my contempt and scorn.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

marssaxman 5mo ago

I hope I get to live in such a place some day.

mothballed 5mo ago
[flagged]
- kuboble 5mo ago
  I think this focuses on the wrong issues. Tin my observation the main advantage of swiss system is the institution of the referendum. It means that every major decision is decided by the people. The elected government decides on the 99.9% other issues. The consequence of this system is that absolute majority of public discourse focuses on the issues and problems and not party affiliation. So e.g. the most consequential election isn't the one where you have to choose the guy who will make everything great again, but e.g. the referendum if the country should spend billions over the next decades on the new tunnel under alps instead of other infrastructure projects.
  - mothballed 5mo ago
    You're completely ignoring that the Swiss system itself was a cultural output of that voting block, one they've kept remarkably insular, and with the remnants of this system going back to something like at least the middle ages. And then lucked out in many ways in WWII where most of Europe did not. The system didn't make the 90-95% euro voting block, the 90-95% white euro voting block made and support the Swiss direct democracy system itself in the context of finding it functional for their relatively insular society. You can't just ramrod a cultural output into other cultures and expect it to work or even expect different voting demographics who might have individually accepted direct democracy to continue to do so once put in a more diverse country. They tried democracy in Somalia and it worked worse by most measured metrics (including economic) than the xeer system of tribal hearings and decentralized governance for which their culture had adapted.
    - 5mo ago

rozap 5mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
_DeadFred_ 5mo ago
Dang has stated these sorts of comments do not belong on HN news. Discussion of specifics are fine, but nationalist slurs are not. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48100358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48100358 Edit: wow, my bad. HN really loves low effort nationalistic slurs as entire comments now.
- switchbak 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - ExtraRoulette 5mo ago
    I'm American. Definitely did not think this was a slur.
  - _DeadFred_ 5mo ago
    I strongly disagree. Substitute with 'the Chinese mind can't comprehend' or 'the Palestinian mind can't comprehend' or 'the Muslim mind can't comprehend' or 'the African American mind can't comprehend' or 'the immigrant mind can't comprehend'. Obviously that would be a slur and not an acceptable way to phrase a point. HN rightly didn't allow these type of generalization comments against Russians after it invaded Ukraine. HN rightly doesn't allow these types of generalization comments at Palestinians. It's wild to me the different standard applied lately to similar comments towards Americans. Definitely a discourse erosion/strain going on on this site when it comes to certain topics/nationalities/generalization of peoples and stereotyping/labeling. In the link I gave dang set the rule that these sort of comments applied towards a nationality aren't acceptable here and an instance of dang actively stepping in to enforce it.

unethical_ban 5mo ago

I assume the concern is more about moving to mandated digital currency where every transaction is tracked by the government, no cash allowed.

7tflutter7 5mo ago

Trust Switzerland? Protonmail is literally fleeing Switzerland. You now have to upload Government ID to use any online service with more than 5k users!! They are also now requiring backdoors (Article 50a). Literally the end of privacy! It's honestly depressing no one talks about this, or even knows about this.