5 ms·
As they start to release more proprietary models, I so wish that they partnered with one of the major US hyperscalers to allow using these models through someth
by tekacs 5mo ago
As they start to release more proprietary models, I so wish that they partnered with one of the major US hyperscalers to allow using these models through something US-domiciled.
Totally understand why it may not be reasonable or in their best interest (and that the US is _absolutely_ not doing the same reflexively). But it would be lovely to be able to try these out on production workloads in earnest.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoUnless US hyperscalers do the same in reverse, I hope the status quo stays as it is. Either people are happy to share, and the sharing should happen both ways, or US hyperscalers can keep isolating themselves as they've done so far.
- adjejmxbdjdn 5mo agoI do hope The U.S. hyperscalers do the same as well. In an ideal world U.S. residents would use Chinese AI models and Chinese residents would use U.S. AI models. Governments in both countries are collecting data for nefarious reasons. But the Chinese government has far less influence on a U.S. resident and vice versa. We are all better off if our data is collected by a government halfway across the world instead of our own governments which hold incredible amounts of power over us.
- nickdothutton 5mo agoChina is much more interested in waging a campaign against companies that represent the material of the future growth in productivity, exports, and prosperity of the US and her people, than learning about you as an individual. Unless of course you are a Chinese dissident living in the US.
- giancarlostoro 5mo agoWhich is basically the current primary use for AI is programming more than anything, you hear about AI in programming more than in any other field.
- saghm 5mo agoThere are also a lot more novels about writing than making movies and a lot more songs about music than plays. It's not clear that this is because it's actually the primary use-case or if it's just because people who work with computers will inevitably talk quite a lot about computer things. For the past several years, pretty much everyone I meet who isn't in software but find out I do (doctors, people who sit next to me on a plane, etc.) will ask me my thoughts about AI because it's so widely discussed in general, and they're curious about my perspective on it as someone in software, but most of the time they're most curious about understanding more about how it might affect their own lives, not mine.
- WarmWash 5mo agoChina definitley wants information on all Americans. This commment is so far off the mark you it's on par with "Billionaires aren't interested in taking your money" As Americans go through life, some of them will become people with power. When you need to leverage that power, having the right knowledge about them can effectively transfer that power to you. Tiktok was a goldmine, because every 20-something on their way to a future position of power was uploading every single facit of their digital life to CCP servers everyday.
- giancarlostoro 5mo agoIt would have been the world we live in if China wasn't involved in so much corporate espionage. I don't even feel comfortable using their open weight models on anything my employer makes, the only time I use Qwen is for greenfield "how good is this?" type of projects, but otherwise, how do I trust that it wont mysteriously hallucinate phoning home? On the other hand, there's other models where the source is 100% open, the training data is known, and people have reproduced the same model from scratch, so while those trail behind, there's definitely an effort to make models more open and capable.
- eloisant 5mo agoI agree, but the same goes for the US. Remember Echelon.
- stickfigure 5mo agoIt's highly improbable that the US government has a secret team inside Anthropic and OpenAI manipulating their training regimen. For better or worse, these companies are filled with ideologues and something that invasive would trigger an army of whistleblowers (despite legal consequences).
- gmerc 5mo agoIts very hard to be so naive.
- SR2Z 5mo agoI think you are being ridiculous. Tampering with an LLMs pretraining is a difficult undertaking. There is plenty of evidence that training a model to walk the party line leaves it less capable than if it weren't. It's not very subtle manipulation either; ask qwen of Taiwan is a part of China in German and in English and only the English answer will be party-approved.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
- CodingJeebus 5mo ago> We are all better off if our data is collected by a government halfway across the world instead of our own governments which hold incredible amounts of power over us. Sure, that is until each government's dataset is interesting enough to the other to facilitate a data-sharing agreement. There's gotta be an internet "law" that says something like "Eventually, the data you volunteer to a benign 3rd party eventually winds up being used against you by someone". This is short-term thinking at it's finest.
- boomskats 5mo agoYeah, about that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement#Controversy
- adrianN 5mo agoIn an ideal world everybody runs open models on hardware they control.
- LeifCarrotson 5mo agoI'm running Qwen 3.6 via https://huggingface.co/Qwen/Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-FP8 https://huggingface.co/Qwen/Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-FP8 and it's pretty great. I'll update to the 3.7 equivalent when that's ready. It's not nearly worth it to me to get an incremental improvement in performance if it means I have to move to hosted environments with Qwen 3.7 (or Claude or Gemini or whatever).
- MintPaw 5mo agoInteresting point, but I'd always thought the opposite, you're much better protected by the law if you use services from your own country. If you use a service outside your country, I believe you could have all your code stolen and get hacked/exploited in a way that would be totally legal.
- 0xbadcafebee 5mo agoI'm more interested in hearing specific reasons why one wouldn't use a Chinese company. Unless you're thinking Alibaba is going to ship chat logs to some government ministry that will then dole out proprietary information to new competitors (which doesn't seem logistically feasible), or you run a human rights organization, it feels a bit like FUD.
- tekacs 5mo ago… building and selling a product to US companies that sends company-internal data to Chinese AI providers is not a particularly good way to get people to buy it. Even if they weren’t individually worried about their proprietary data being shared with Chinese domestic competitors or with government… their audit / security programs likely wouldn’t allow it for a _huge_ range of types of data.
- vessenes 5mo agoAll this data is accessible to national security agencies; this is true in every country in the world. China has more integration between intelligence and industry than many western countries, and it does present a higher risk of unwanted “tech transfer” to industry than running on oracle or Google or ms or Amazon does in the US. DHS has long staffed full time agents in California to deal with foreign IP exfiltration - using qwen is like fast/easy mode for IP exfiltration: why make anyone get a job in your palo alto office when you can just send it to them in Hanzhou? Upshot - If you have something proprietary you’re working on I would generally advise not to just direct send it to Alibaba.
- epolanski 5mo agoUS hyperscalers, all of them, are financially invested in the US AI labs and have the incentives to keep the status quo.
- motiw 5mo agoChatLLM support QWEN, do you consider this as US safe?
- dchftcs 5mo agofireworks hosts Qwen 3.6 Plus, they might also get Qwen 3.7 Plus.
- tmoravec 5mo agoQwen3.6-Plus is available from Fireworks.
- tekacs 5mo agoThank you for pointing that out! If 3.7-Max makes its way to Fireworks that'd be a joy.
- mostafab 5mo agoAlibaba Cloud has data centers in Mexico