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Ex-Apple engineer says Apple deliberately slows older phones via updates
- Manuel_D 5mo agoIf true, this could be verified by keeping a set of phones on older software and comparing that control group against a set of phones that received the update. That said, I'm totally unconvinced by this video. There's zero details of how Apple allegedly slows down old phones. Lowered clock rate? Artificially increased system call times? Nothing actually explained in the video.
- basch 5mo agoor just bloat. make no attempt that your newer versions are as optimized because newer hardware covers your inflation.
- autoexec 5mo agoAt that point you're stuck proving intent. Apple probably knows that their bloat-filled updates slows down old phones and they're probably thrilled that it annoys their customers enough that many will upgrade, but good luck proving that is the reason they're doing it.
- basch 5mo agowell and where is the line between true intent vs lack of caring. if bloat is a side effect of feature creep and project handoffs, slowing old devices is an "unintended" feature.
- pj_mukh 5mo agoIsn’t their explicit claim that they’re doing this to extend battery life? I thought this was already litigated? Of course they could give the user options but then they could also let the user swap batteries. Those are just not things Apple does.
- m_gloeckl 5mo agoThere is a toggle in Settings -> Battery -> Power Mode called 'Adaptive Power' which does exactly this. It's out in the open and has been for a while.
- JimDabell 5mo ago> Isn’t their explicit claim that they’re doing this to extend battery life? I thought this was already litigated? Yes, and yes. Batteries are consumable goods and throttling can make aging, borderline batteries work when otherwise they would cut out and cause unexpected power-offs. It’s the opposite of planned obsolescence because it makes older devices operational for longer. You can also look at this empirically: Apple support old devices far longer than most of their competitors, and iPhones retain resale value far better than other phones. If Apple actively sabotage older devices, why put in the effort to explicitly support them, and why does the market treat supposedly sabotaged older devices as more valuable than the competition?
- serial_dev 5mo agoYour experiment would not prove that they are deliberately slowing older phones via updates. That's big part of the claim. Your experiment would only show that as you update, your old phones will get slower and slower. I wouldn't be surprised older phones get slower with updates, in fact, that feels like the most likely scenario for me, based on my experience as a software developer. But IMO, Hanlon's (maybe Occam's, too?) Razor applies. Most likely, the teams just need to ship features, make fixes, and they mostly test on higher end, recent devices. Sure, at some point, someone tests on a lower end device that everything still works, but they probably either do not notice the issues, or shrug it off, or rationalize it (it might make x worse, but users get y in exchange, so it's fine).
- throwwwll 5mo ago> would not prove that they are deliberately slowing older phones > Hanlon's (maybe Occam's, too?) Razor applies peak "Leave the multi-trillion corporation alone"
- serial_dev 5mo agoI'm not saying that they definitely did not do it on purpose, it's possible, I am saying that a simple with/without updates check doesn't prove they did it on purpose. In my own experience, newer products get more love automatically, because the testers, the devs, the team are on newer devices. Perf regressions are also harder to catch than simpler bugs and sometimes require extended usage to notice smaller perf degradation, and devs and QA do not really test like that (often enough). The way I see it, older products will naturally decline with updates, as they are less of a focus while validating a new release. Sure, they get some "freebie" improvements, but I'm guessing the accidental "decay" outweighs any improvements. I'm not saying they couldn't make it on purpose. I'm saying that (IMO) it's more likely that it gets worse with every update even without malicious, conniving people trying to get you to upgrade by worsening your OS.
- throwwwll 4mo agoI do say they did it on purpose. And they did. Thank you for attention to this matter.
- neya 5mo agoIn my personal experience, this is definitely the case. My iPhone 14 Pro Max slowed down a LOT exactly 3 days before the launch of the new iPhone. I thought it was just a coincidence and did upgrade to 15 and it happened again. Someone on reddit a while ago actually graphed Google trends data for "iPhone slow" and found out there were peaks for the search term right around Apple's launches.
- array_key_first 5mo agoIt's almost certainly true but not intentional. As time goes on, the requirements of software seem to increase. Especially, these days, GPU-wise. Fancy animations and effects are common and they're usually implemented very suboptimally. They only get away with it because of hardware acceleration. Well... old hardware is slow, and I wouldn't be surprised if it shows.
- Aloha 5mo agoThey could also just not care too much about compiler optimizations etc.
- Animats 5mo ago"pill-shaped cutout ... could disappear entirely." Does that mean "the notch" goes away, too?
- joshka 5mo agoMeh - doubt it. I'm using an iPhone 14, it feels like it works basically the same as it did when I got it. In general slow downs are apps doing and not caring to per tune because the baseline perf expectation of app developers increases to the point where those things don't matter. Use the default apps and you're pretty much ok.
- LunicLynx 5mo agoAny one surprised by this? This was very apparent around the iPhone 4 / 5 era. And the last ones hit were the 11 and 12 series.
- __patchbit__ 5mo agoiPhone SE is zippy as new. Maybe your gadget got cyberworms.
- microtonal 5mo agoMy mother's iPhone 11 or 12 (forgot which one of the two) works perfectly fine. I think performance in general has a complicating factor, because iPhones are downclocked when the battery has degraded to avoid voltage spikes that can lead to instability with a bad battery. In many cases, performance improves after battery replacement. iPhone 4 and 5 are really a different era when smartphone software and hardware was still developing very rapidly. I mean, the iPhone 5s alone introduced: a 64-bit CPU, a secure enclave, Touch ID, the first iPhone with separate co-processor to process motion data. Similarly, the iPhone 5 doubled the RAM compared to the 4s and had roughly twice better CPU and GPU performance than the 4s. Such changes are unheard of nowadays.
- IshKebab 5mo agoYes I would be very surprised by this if it were true (which it probably isn't). The claim isn't that old iPhones run slower on newer OSes - it's that this was done by deliberately inserting malware. Pretty clear bullshit IMO. Insane that we're discussing it. Did these people do any verification?
- sgt 5mo agoIsn't this the same old myth that we heard about a few years ago, regarding the battery decay and throttling to keep the phone alive? I'd rather the phone be a bit slower than having the phone cut out on me. There's a simple fix to this, and that's just to have a healthy battery in your phone. No need to buy a new phone.
- suddenlybananas 5mo ago>There's a simple fix to this, and that's just to have a healthy battery in your phone. How great that I can replace my old battery!
- sgt 5mo agoJust look at your battery health. If it's bad, have it replaced. Thousands of people do that.
- digitaltrees 5mo ago[flagged]
- ochronus 5mo agoDoesn't match my personal experience over a handful of iPhone generations. I know, anecdotal only, but still.
- kotaKat 5mo agoI've also never had a 'slowdown' nor have I ever had the purported "all the charging cables crumble" problem people keep claiming Apple has materials engineering problems for. I wonder if people are just too sensitive to a handful of milliseconds of delay and calling it "slowdown" and didn't grow up on an era of metal that took minutes to do simple tasks.
- fsflover 5mo agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45544181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45544181
- throwa356262 5mo agoI mean, this is common knowledge: https://theweek.com/59708/does-apple-slow-old-iphones-when-a-new-model-comes-out https://theweek.com/59708/does-apple-slow-old-iphones-when-a... Apple claims this is to "keep things stable when the battery ages" and there are tons of suckers out there that belive it. But somehow, it always happens as a new iPhone is being introduced. https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/iphone-slow-do-apple-s-smartphones-get-slower-when-a-new-one-is-launched-9635878.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/iphone-slow-do-apple-s-sm... (I except this comment to be flagged or downvoted heavily)
- fmajid 5mo agoAnd that is why the EU is mandating user replaceable batteries in phones starting in Feb 2027. But I'm sure some HN readers will shout "My freedumb!".
- danjc 5mo agoPlot twist: Apple PR team created this video to make claims that they slow older devices seem less credible.
- goldenarm 5mo agoIt became blatantly obvious when Apple redid their entire design system to use expensive GPU accelerated 3D glass.
- bell-cot 5mo agoI'd attribute that to (1) consumer preferences for (some might say addictions to) ever-more-complex graphical animations on screens, and (2) Apple managers needing to "do something" to justify being paid & promoted.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- RASBR89 5mo agoI don’t want to believe it but wouldn’t surprise me. I pick up my old iPhone 7 and it feels so slick and fast, it 13 mini on iOS 26 is fast in some places but infuriatingly laggy in others. Battery health 90%. What frustrates me is that the CPUs are so powerful but somehow 5 years down the line are slow in basic UI navigation.
- SilverElfin 5mo agoThis has been obvious from the start. There is virtually no change in the phone’s core function but the performance degrades everywhere. I wonder if it is to promote new phones or to avoid warranty claims on existing ones.
- j_leboulanger 5mo agoUsing an iPhone SE (2016) daily I have a hard time believing this info
- sublimefire 5mo agoaren’t they stuck on an older version of ios with just security patches? but i sort of agree as my kids would have older versions which are all right
- butokai 5mo agoI remember trying an iPhone 12 in 2020 and feeling it was so fast that no phone task would ever be able to use all that power. Definitely not my current experience on my now old iPhone 12. A lot of it can be attributed to ever increasing ram usage by web pages, but that doesn’t seem to be all.
- Elaine_tea 5mo ago[dead]
- karlmedley 5mo agoThis whole article is lifted credulously from newsx.com, including the "but the iPhone 18 will be great" paragraph at the end. The referenced tweet is a crypto account. Zero effort to verify the claim or the source, which itself provides no verifiable details. I'd love to hear if anyone thinks https://www.tiktok.com/@honeycoolcat https://www.tiktok.com/@honeycoolcat is a credible source.
- neya 5mo agoThe actual source is a video of the said Apple engineer from their TikTok account: https://www.tiktok.com/@honeycoolcat/video/7624743231997136141 https://www.tiktok.com/@honeycoolcat/video/76247432319971361...
- karlmedley 5mo agoRight, and the only evidence that they were an Apple engineer is their claim in the same video. In the absence of any actual journalism happening here, my assumption is this is a random Tiktoker making up a story for likes.
- unsnap_biceps 5mo agoI'm almost certain this is the case. There's other videos where she talks about calling an executive meeting to hand in her two weeks and another one complaining that the corporate offices don't have ac or windows. I think it's all engagement bait.
- microtonal 5mo agoHeh, I'm usually not the one to defend Apple, but... She calls it malware, if she was an Apple engineer, she should be able to give a hint where to look so that interested parties can disassemble the code and investigate. With no specifics, it looks like a former engineer that holds a grudge. Not saying that this is the case, but she would make her position stronger with some specifics. It seems to me that it's much easier to just not optimize new code paths for older devices, introduce changes that require more performant hardware (cough, Liquid Glass), etc. That together with the natural bloating of applications and websites does enough to slow down older phones. Especially because Apple has always been conservative with the amount of memory in their phones. E.g. even the iPhone 17 still has 8 GiB RAM, while comparably-priced Android phones have 16 GiB RAM.
- plufz 5mo agoYeah Apple is smart enough to know that large conspiracies tend to leak sooner or later. Your solution would absolutely have been my choice if I wanted to slow down old iPhones, and I’m quite sure the leadership at Apple are smarter than me.
- fsflover 5mo ago> She calls it malware, if she was an Apple engineer, she should be able to give a hint where to look so that interested parties can disassemble the code and investigate There is a bunch of HN comments complaining that the new iOS is significantly slower on older devices [0]. It even led to unusually slow adoption [1]. Then, Apple tried to force older devices to upgrade [2]. Previously, Apple deliberately slowed old iPhones down and got fined for that [3]. How can you still give the benefit of the doubt after all this? > It seems to me that it's much easier to just not optimize new code paths for older devices The new iOS is much heavier for all devices. There is nothing specific for older devices. It looks like a deliberate attempt to kill older devices though, just like they did before. And it is extremely profitable for Apple to do that. Deliberately designed software to make your experience worse in order to gain some profit is nothing else than malware, isn't it? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45544181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45544181 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46548654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46548654 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46134965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46134965 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18292417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18292417
- compounding_it 5mo agoI have been thinking about this for some time now. There is no doubt this happens. My moms iPhone 11 is on iOS 26 and over the last 2 OS updates, its reached that exact point where it is 'glitching' like the twitter video says. Now that it won't get a new update this year it seems it requires an upgrade, not from new features, but from the existing ones no longer functioning efficiently. My theory is that the 'malware' is simply heavier updates on older phones that don't really need it. For example the camera app in iOS26 could be significantly slower than in iOS 15 for example. It may do a few extra things but it could do them just as well on the older code base. Now with the new code base, the exact same feature runs slower on an old phone but runs the same on a newer phone with a relative difference noticeable. This is probably because Apple hardware team is far ahead of the software team. There is a lot of headroom, and instead of doing something innovative with it, apple choses to instead just bloat it to sell more phones. Apple with this strategy becomes the most environmentally unhealthy company. Of course we need a way to prove this. What I would do is get an iPhone 12 with iOS 14 to iOS 27 and compare how fluid and snappy the UI is. its probably hard to get an iPhone with iOS 14 because apple cleverly doesnt sign it.
- microtonal 5mo agoApple with this strategy becomes the most environmentally unhealthy company. Of course we need a way to prove this. Ehm, talk to all the Android vendors who stopped doing security updates after 1-2 years or are only doing security updates every 3-6 months (which is certainly not safe with the current vulnerability rate). New EU regulations are moving them for long support periods. Funnily enough, some of them think they can do some malicious compliance by never releasing any updates at all: https://www.androidauthority.com/motorola-eu-software-updates-loophole-3636627/ https://www.androidauthority.com/motorola-eu-software-update... My mom still has an iPhone 11 or 12 and it's definitely running better than Android phones 2019 or 2020. Not only that, it is also still getting security updates. (Credits go to Google Pixel and a lesser extend Samsung S-series for showing the way when it comes to Android updates.)
- tristanj 5mo agoHave you considered that the iPhone 11 is just old, and not powerful enough to run modern software? The iPhone 11 was released 7 years ago and is old by smartphone standards. A new iPhone 18 has 2.5x the performance of an iPhone 11. Smartphones are one of the very few aspects in life that improve exponentially year over year.
- ksec 5mo agoI keep thinking they turn off certain optimisation for older model in the name of security.
- fmajid 5mo agoA corollary to Clarke's Law: any sufficiently incompetently written software is indistinguishable from malware. Yes, I'm looking at you, Liquid Ass.
- yomismoaqui 5mo agoWasn't this already confirmed by Batterygate? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate
- ofrzeta 5mo agoIs this news? I think read this about five years ago. Also it's not a scandal but just a way to cope with degrading batteries. Incidentally my own older iPhone noticeably slowed about two weeks ago although it's only a feeling and I have no way to verify this.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5mo ago"Back then, the company admitted to slowing down some older models through routine software updates. However, it stated that the main goal was to stop phones with aging batteries from shutting down unexpectedly, rather than tricking buyers." This is a common pattern seen with so-called "tech" companies A denial of intent For example Accusation: Apple slowed phones with updates Response: We force updates for valid reasons where [valid reasons] usually makes some mention of "security" The companies never deny that the subject of the complaint, e.g., loss of performance, loss of privacy, etc., was forseeable For example, the company will state something like, "We force updates for valid reasons" instead of "We force updates for valid reasons. We had no idea this would make older phones slower." Of course the company knew this would make phones slower The company in its response might state the "main goal" but what were the "other goals" or "incidental benefits" that accrue to the company, e.g., slower phones as a result of "updates" leads to more "upgrades" (sales of new phones)
- josefritzishere 5mo agoWhy is this flagged? This is a legitimate topic about a tech company. the story's source is attributed.