5 ms·

Building a tool that tries (and probably fails) to remove the watermark (due to the arms race that large corporate machines will win) is tacitly accepting the b

by j2kun 5mo ago

Building a tool that tries (and probably fails) to remove the watermark (due to the arms race that large corporate machines will win) is tacitly accepting the barcode. The hacker ethos should be, first and foremost, to run open source models locally without relying on a corporation.

akersten 5mo ago
> [fighting against the system] is tacitly accepting the barcode. I don't really see it. I think it's important to win on both fronts.
- gpt5 5mo ago
  Especially as the open weight models are really generated by corporates, and they could stop releasing them at any time.
  - singpolyma3 5mo ago
    But we'd still have them. It's not like we're gaining much with new training anymore anyway
    - UqWBcuFx6NV4r 5mo ago
      I appreciate my coding agent being increasingly aware of the walrus operator :)
  - kridsdale1 5mo ago
    They also have built in dystopian government authority enforcement in them unless you go to pains to sever those neurons.
- j2kun 5mo ago
  Fighting within the system is accepting the system.
huflungdung 5mo ago
[dead]
transcriptase 5mo ago
>due to the arms race that large corporate machines will win Much like how the entirety of Hollywood, book publishers, academic publishers, and game developers have won against piracy despite being some of the largest corps on earth and dedicating untold billions to the issue over the past 30 years?
- SecretDreams 5mo ago
  Yes. Winning against piracy doesn't mean you completely eliminate piracy. It means you scare enough people into not doing it and make it a bit harder to do for others. Losing to piracy would see companies like Netflix and Spotify not thriving.
  - fc417fc802 5mo ago
    > It means you scare enough people into not doing it and make it a bit harder to do for others. By which definition they utterly failed. > Losing to piracy would see companies like Netflix and Spotify not thriving. Not at all. Netflix and Spotify do well because they are a good value proposition for the average customer. Piracy is free at point of "purchase" but is (and always has been) expensive in terms of various sorts of overhead.
    - black_knight 5mo ago
      As long as enough people keep the pirate bays open, it will be there as an alternative when the services start their inevitable enshittification. I for one do not enjoy the “Which service has the classic film I wanted to watch this week?” Nor having to switch services every time I want to see a new TV series. We need (and have!) similar “free” alternatives to the watermarked generative services. Just like I hate the yellow dots on my printed images, I am not happy to have my creative assets (I do nothing nefarious) stained with SynthID.
  - AnthonyMouse 5mo ago
    > Winning against piracy doesn't mean you completely eliminate piracy. But this is moving the goalposts. You can win against piracy either by making piracy less attractive or by making the paid offering more attractive. The first has utterly failed, piracy remains easy as a rule, and to the extent that they've succeeded it's not only disproportionately by doing the second thing, the DRM itself is a net negative because it has such a small effect on the ease of piracy while making the paid offering worse.
photios 5mo ago
> No use messing with Google's watermark, fellas. Go do something else that's 100x harder instead. > works for Google Gee, I wonder why...
brookst 5mo ago
This is the “instead of using seatbelts, we should invest in trains” argument.
- j2kun 5mo ago
  It is the "instead of arguing about seatbelts, we should stop driving cars" argument.
victorbjorklund 5mo ago
It doesn't make any sense at all. That's like saying browsing the internet with an ad blocker and other privacy tools is a tacit acceptance of tracking and ads, and that you should only visit websites that doesn't track or have ads.
- j2kun 5mo ago
  Chrome is a great demonstration of my point here.
Dongyu_Jia 5mo ago
[flagged]
nancyminusone 5mo ago
Or you can just take a picture of your monitor with your phone.
ryanmcbride 5mo ago
multiple things can be in line with the hacker ethos

by j2kun 5mo ago

akersten 5mo ago

> [fighting against the system] is tacitly accepting the barcode. I don't really see it. I think it's important to win on both fronts.

gpt5 5mo ago
Especially as the open weight models are really generated by corporates, and they could stop releasing them at any time.
- singpolyma3 5mo ago
  But we'd still have them. It's not like we're gaining much with new training anymore anyway
  - UqWBcuFx6NV4r 5mo ago
    I appreciate my coding agent being increasingly aware of the walrus operator :)
- kridsdale1 5mo ago
  They also have built in dystopian government authority enforcement in them unless you go to pains to sever those neurons.
j2kun 5mo ago
Fighting within the system is accepting the system.

huflungdung 5mo ago

[dead]

transcriptase 5mo ago

>due to the arms race that large corporate machines will win Much like how the entirety of Hollywood, book publishers, academic publishers, and game developers have won against piracy despite being some of the largest corps on earth and dedicating untold billions to the issue over the past 30 years?

SecretDreams 5mo ago
Yes. Winning against piracy doesn't mean you completely eliminate piracy. It means you scare enough people into not doing it and make it a bit harder to do for others. Losing to piracy would see companies like Netflix and Spotify not thriving.
- fc417fc802 5mo ago
  > It means you scare enough people into not doing it and make it a bit harder to do for others. By which definition they utterly failed. > Losing to piracy would see companies like Netflix and Spotify not thriving. Not at all. Netflix and Spotify do well because they are a good value proposition for the average customer. Piracy is free at point of "purchase" but is (and always has been) expensive in terms of various sorts of overhead.
  - black_knight 5mo ago
    As long as enough people keep the pirate bays open, it will be there as an alternative when the services start their inevitable enshittification. I for one do not enjoy the “Which service has the classic film I wanted to watch this week?” Nor having to switch services every time I want to see a new TV series. We need (and have!) similar “free” alternatives to the watermarked generative services. Just like I hate the yellow dots on my printed images, I am not happy to have my creative assets (I do nothing nefarious) stained with SynthID.
- AnthonyMouse 5mo ago
  > Winning against piracy doesn't mean you completely eliminate piracy. But this is moving the goalposts. You can win against piracy either by making piracy less attractive or by making the paid offering more attractive. The first has utterly failed, piracy remains easy as a rule, and to the extent that they've succeeded it's not only disproportionately by doing the second thing, the DRM itself is a net negative because it has such a small effect on the ease of piracy while making the paid offering worse.

photios 5mo ago

> No use messing with Google's watermark, fellas. Go do something else that's 100x harder instead. > works for Google Gee, I wonder why...

brookst 5mo ago

This is the “instead of using seatbelts, we should invest in trains” argument.

j2kun 5mo ago
It is the "instead of arguing about seatbelts, we should stop driving cars" argument.

victorbjorklund 5mo ago

It doesn't make any sense at all. That's like saying browsing the internet with an ad blocker and other privacy tools is a tacit acceptance of tracking and ads, and that you should only visit websites that doesn't track or have ads.

j2kun 5mo ago
Chrome is a great demonstration of my point here.

Dongyu_Jia 5mo ago

[flagged]

nancyminusone 5mo ago

Or you can just take a picture of your monitor with your phone.

ryanmcbride 5mo ago

multiple things can be in line with the hacker ethos