5 ms·

China seems like a not very good place to live in... Everything you read about China confirms this idea even more.

potatolicious 14y ago
Bear in mind your sources of information. The US media is perennially down about all issues East Asian, and even moreso at a time when America feels threatened. This goes beyond China, if you turned the clock back 20 years it was Japan. This happens on the other side of the fence too, the Chinese media also covers disproportionately the failures of the US. The only takeaway here is to not get all of your information from one place - even if it is the New York Times.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  With the People's Daily or CCTV you'll get a much less biased view of china (joking). The system sucks and kudos to NYT for informing us, even if it has landed them on the wrong side of the great firewall. Ya, bad things happen in the states too but the NYT has no problem reporting on that! The western and Chinese press are just completely incomparable when it comes to bias. Wen is also right, this corruption will tear china apart if it doesn't end soon. That being said, china can be a nice place to live if you are a foreigner, have lots of moment to send your kids to international school, or are a local with lots of guanxi, or you don't have kids yet. You'll hardly realize corruption in your daily life outside of some key but rare activities (like buying property or dealing with local schools).
  - potatolicious 14y ago
    I think you and I are talking about completely different things. My post is in response to the notion that, given all the reporting you see in Western media re: China, the whole country looks like one gigantic shithole. This perception is not entirely surprising. Even when one gets all of their news from the NYT (which as far as as bias and truthfulness goes, is pretty damn good), there is a systemic bias in getting Eastern news from Western sources by mere virtue of the fact that you'll never hear the good with the bad - you'll just hear the bad. This isn't some evil conspiracy to slag China - it is this way for the same reason the 6 o'clock news is full of murders and robberies. Except, unlike the 6 o'clock news, you don't have real-life experience to temper the one-sidedness. If you get all of your world view from local news sources, you'll have a very skewed world view, even if all of the content you consume is factual.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      Right, I see what you mean. I was just pointing out if you only used Chinese media to learn about china, it would be the best place in the world since they cover up most of the bad, it's not like the west where our press is more than happy to air our dirty laundry.
      - i_beg_to_differ 14y ago
        I think it is a bit more nuanced than that. Yes, there is censorship in China, but not everything is censored equally. In particular, bribery cases usually get wide coverage in the media, even in China Daily. If my understanding is correct that's because the consensus is that the top brass is clean, it's just the "underlings" that can be bought. So, the leadership allows reporting of corruption (or even encourages it), as a means of keeping local officials in check. Because the central government is well aware of the problem and regards it as an existential threat, too.
        seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        Wow, the propaganda has worked really well on you. Bribery cases only get publicized when someone has another ax to grind with the official, because otherwise EVERYONE does it. The top brass is not clean at all, even Wen Jiaobao (just check out the NYT reporting about his family's wealth!) but they have enough guanxi to not get called out for it. That Bo Xilai was called out had more to do with him tapping Hu Jintao's phone than him being a corrupt general bad guy! China's family-power politics is very entrenched by now, no one is really immune to it: if you try to be clean, you'll get kicked out because that would make you immune to the nuclear option (don't tell on me, and I won't tell on you). The government will give the public some bones whenever some official makes a serious mistake that can't be covered up, or otherwise someone who has more guanxi than the target has some score to settle.

Bear in mind your sources of information. The US media is perennially down about all issues East Asian, and even moreso at a time when America feels threatened. This goes beyond China, if you turned the clock back 20 years it was Japan. This happens on the other side of the fence too, the Chinese media also covers disproportionately the failures of the US. The only takeaway here is to not get all of your information from one place - even if it is the New York Times.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
With the People's Daily or CCTV you'll get a much less biased view of china (joking). The system sucks and kudos to NYT for informing us, even if it has landed them on the wrong side of the great firewall. Ya, bad things happen in the states too but the NYT has no problem reporting on that! The western and Chinese press are just completely incomparable when it comes to bias. Wen is also right, this corruption will tear china apart if it doesn't end soon. That being said, china can be a nice place to live if you are a foreigner, have lots of moment to send your kids to international school, or are a local with lots of guanxi, or you don't have kids yet. You'll hardly realize corruption in your daily life outside of some key but rare activities (like buying property or dealing with local schools).
- potatolicious 14y ago
  I think you and I are talking about completely different things. My post is in response to the notion that, given all the reporting you see in Western media re: China, the whole country looks like one gigantic shithole. This perception is not entirely surprising. Even when one gets all of their news from the NYT (which as far as as bias and truthfulness goes, is pretty damn good), there is a systemic bias in getting Eastern news from Western sources by mere virtue of the fact that you'll never hear the good with the bad - you'll just hear the bad. This isn't some evil conspiracy to slag China - it is this way for the same reason the 6 o'clock news is full of murders and robberies. Except, unlike the 6 o'clock news, you don't have real-life experience to temper the one-sidedness. If you get all of your world view from local news sources, you'll have a very skewed world view, even if all of the content you consume is factual.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Right, I see what you mean. I was just pointing out if you only used Chinese media to learn about china, it would be the best place in the world since they cover up most of the bad, it's not like the west where our press is more than happy to air our dirty laundry.
    - i_beg_to_differ 14y ago
      I think it is a bit more nuanced than that. Yes, there is censorship in China, but not everything is censored equally. In particular, bribery cases usually get wide coverage in the media, even in China Daily. If my understanding is correct that's because the consensus is that the top brass is clean, it's just the "underlings" that can be bought. So, the leadership allows reporting of corruption (or even encourages it), as a means of keeping local officials in check. Because the central government is well aware of the problem and regards it as an existential threat, too.
      - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        Wow, the propaganda has worked really well on you. Bribery cases only get publicized when someone has another ax to grind with the official, because otherwise EVERYONE does it. The top brass is not clean at all, even Wen Jiaobao (just check out the NYT reporting about his family's wealth!) but they have enough guanxi to not get called out for it. That Bo Xilai was called out had more to do with him tapping Hu Jintao's phone than him being a corrupt general bad guy! China's family-power politics is very entrenched by now, no one is really immune to it: if you try to be clean, you'll get kicked out because that would make you immune to the nuclear option (don't tell on me, and I won't tell on you). The government will give the public some bones whenever some official makes a serious mistake that can't be covered up, or otherwise someone who has more guanxi than the target has some score to settle.