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Sounds like a bargain. In the UK we'll be paying £0.03 per mile from April 2028.
by mattbee 5mo ago
Sounds like a bargain. In the UK we'll be paying £0.03 per mile from April 2028.
- smt88 5mo agoThis is a direct replacement for the gasoline taxes which pay for our roads, so $130 for most drivers is actually a bargain in the US too. EVs are also much harsher on roads because of their weight.
- cosmic_cheese 5mo agoThe weight gap between EV and ICE is often exaggerated. In fact, within ICE vehicles, the gap between sedans/hatchbacks/compact crossovers and giant SUVs and trucks is larger, and yet for some reason we aren’t taxing drivers of Suburbans and F-150s accordingly. If we applied this logic fairly we should be pushing people to right-size their vehicles regardless of fuel type.
- jonfw 5mo agoWe are discussing a gas tax, and there is a strong correlation between gas consumption and weight, which implies more taxes for trucks and SUVs
- atmavatar 5mo agoThat's true, but gas consumption by weight is more of a linear function, while road wear follows the fourth power law by axle weight. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law As an example: A 2026 Honda Accord LX has a combined gas mileage around 32 mpg and a curb weight of 3,239 lbs. See: https://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/specs-features-trim-comparison https://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/specs-features-tr... A 2025 Ford F-150 XLT has a combined gas mileage around 20 mpg and a curb weight of 4,941 lbs. See: https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2025/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2025/features-specs/ Keeping things simple and calculating the axle weight to the fourth powers of both vehicles, the F-150 causes 5.4x the road wear of the Honda Accord while using only 1.6x the gas. The reason this doesn't matter so much, though, is that the types of trucks used for shipping goods, when loaded, cause on the order of 10^4 the road wear, dwarfing any differences between standard commuter vehicles, which is why commercial trucks have to stop at weigh stations.
- manwe150 5mo agoThe big trucks also have a lot more tires / tire surface area, to mitigate that. IIUC, the weigh stations are to ensure they aren’t overloading the truck, so that road wear is comparable instead of being that vastly greater
- eli 5mo agoWe absolutely are doing that at the state and local level. Vehicle registration fees vary by weight and type of vehicle most places.
- manwe150 5mo agoRedditors claim there is no evidence the weight is relevant to the wear rate of the roads, since weights have become comparable to a similar car and generally less than the average ICE truck, but that the superior acceleration of EV can be harsher on intersections https://www.reddit.com/r/electriccars/comments/1do2rtu/what_about_road_maintenance_for_an_electric_car/ https://www.reddit.com/r/electriccars/comments/1do2rtu/what_...
- marcosdumay 5mo agoWell, that's a US-only argument.
- mikestew 5mo agoso $130 for most drivers is actually a bargain in the US too. I’d have to drive an EV about 35% more miles each year to make it to break even on tax versus our 35 mpg ICE car. It’s no bargain, it’s punishment for driving an EV. EVs are also much harsher on roads because of their weight. My Hyundai Ioniq 5 weighs less than the most popular vehicle in the US: the F-150. I don’t see those getting special taxes.
- wil421 5mo agoThe F-150 is not the most popular vehicle or even truck. The F-Series is, which includes all the bigger versions and fleet models. How do you pay more taxes on EVs when you factor in gas taxes?
- mikestew 5mo agoHow do you pay more taxes on EVs when you factor in gas taxes? Huh? Simple math? $MILES_PER_YEAR/$200 (EV tax in WA) vs. $GALLONS_USED * $0.18 in the ICE car. I pay more in taxes to run the EV in a year than I do for equivalent miles in a 35mpg ICE. IOW, if I drove the Scion xB all the time, I’d pay less tax.
- jquery 5mo agoThe alternative is them checking the odometer each year on the EVs, which would be fairer, but I feel like Americans would complain that’s an invasion of their privacy or something. Or it would upset the rural voters who have disproportionate power in this country.
- deltoidmaximus 5mo agoModern cars are full of phone home shenanigans, many of them with cameras and ToS that allow them to observe everything and sell all of the data to anyone that can rub two cents together. IIRC laws coming into effect next year mandate even more of it. If Americans care about privacy of their cars they have a funny way of showing it. The odometer read would actually be a great privacy improvement compared to that. I think they should just tax tires. It sounds easier to administer and if it was a natural tax it would alleviate the main weakness it seemed to have: That's you buy your tires in the state with the lowest tire tax.
- neilcj 5mo agoSpeak for your Tesla. My i3 weighs slightly less than my partner's Mini Cooper.
- tzs 5mo ago$130 is the amount of tax that an average person would pay if they drove in ICE car that got under 19 mpg. No way is that a bargain.
- csomar 5mo agoThat seems like a more logical system? You should be paying miles x vehicle weight since that’s what tear roads.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoDoes it matter if the car is electric or not so much for road tearing? I'd thought the wheels and engine capabilities would matter more, but I'm not car expert.
- marcosdumay 5mo agoFuel normally includes taxes that pay for roads. Electricity doesn't, and it's not very fair to just add those taxes.
- dd8601fn 5mo agoI think the idea is with ice vehicles you can tax the gas, which is a convenient roll-up summary of the above. But EVs sidestep all that.
- pirates 5mo agoEVs on average are heavier than ICE vehicles, and road damage scales with weight very quickly, but that’s not to say EVs are out there tearing up all the roads. Semi-trucks, construction equipment, heavy machinery towing, etc all do way way more damage than passenger vehicles by a wide margin.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago> EVs on average are heavier than ICE vehicles, and road damage scales with weight very quickly So then tax based on weight if that's the differentiator of the damage done? I guess in combination with mileage would make most sense, and add in a scale based on net worth too to make it extra goodie.
- brendoelfrendo 5mo ago
- xdennis 5mo agoBut how does the government know how much you drove?
- missedthecue 5mo agoOdometer check during annual inspection
- mattbee 5mo agoYep you can look up a car's MOT status publicly, including their mileage history at each inspection. I wonder if they'll send a bill from that report, or expect garages to act as tax collectors. Though currently you don't need an MOT until a vehicle is 3 years old, so they'll to add something there.
- nephihaha 5mo agoMore state discrimination against people in Scotland and rural communities...
- xethos 5mo agoI mean sure, it's not perfectly, 100% fair, but do you have a better plan, or just complaints? Because rural populations seem to want to have their cake and eat it too - living in a rural area to save money and have additional space, without wanting to pay for the extremely expensive roads that enable their lifestyle, or even to admit that it's infeasible for everyone to live that way More driving both increases the likelyhood of damages to vehicles or people, and makes this a useage-based fee - so while not perfect, it's the closest we can realistically get without becoming mired in PR mis-understandings or complications, technicalities, and enforcement difficulties.
- nephihaha 5mo agoRural populations do not have "their cake". They are already charged high prices for goods and transport and punished for not living in unhealthy dense urban environments. This just boosts their cost of living even more. Some people like things like fresh air, space and feeling a connection to the area they live in. It seems that our rulers want little more than us living in tiny microhomes in filing cabinets, staring at a screen all day for all our needs, while they get to enjoy the countryside as some kind of safari park where they can do what they want. Or at best trapped into some panopticon where you will be prevented from travelling more than a few miles/kilometres away. Most modern urban environments are soul-destroying hellscapes which is why some people don't want to live in them.