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> Composer 2.5 is built on the same open-source checkpoint as Composer 2, Moonshot's Kimi K2.5. Really nice to see they're giving credit to the company and I a
by throwaw12 5mo ago
> Composer 2.5 is built on the same open-source checkpoint as Composer 2, Moonshot's Kimi K2.5.
Really nice to see they're giving credit to the company and I am optimistic Kimi K open models soon will outperform Opus models
- howdareme9 5mo agoOnly because last time they tried to hide it lol
- trymas 5mo agoYes and if I remember the drama correctly - Kimi's license or terms of use says that for commercial use cases (or was it user count?) - you must declare credit to Moonshot and Kimi.
- Lennie 5mo agoIt's important to mention: they were compliant, because they trained the model at an AI hosting provider that had a partnership with Moonshot AI, but Moonshot didn't know Cursor was a customer.
- maxdo 5mo agoHow can distilled opus become better than original? There are numbers of reports including anthropic that kimi team was participating in fraudulent activities
- throwa356262 5mo agoDo we know the "fraudulent " requests really came from moonshot engineers and was not QA team running a ton of benchmarks against other models? I feel distilling something as big as Opus would require many many more samples, but I dont really know much about this subject
- maxdo 5mo agosure, sounds like QA lol Scale: Over 3.4 million exchanges The operation targeted: Agentic reasoning and tool use Coding and data analysis Computer-use agent development Computer vision Moonshot (Kimi models) employed hundreds of fraudulent accounts spanning multiple access pathways. Varied account types made the campaign harder to detect as a coordinated operation. We attributed the campaign through request metadata, which matched the public profiles of senior Moonshot staff. In a later phase, Moonshot used a more targeted approach, attempting to extract and reconstruct Claude’s reasoning traces.
- ta20240528 5mo agoAnd when you here unsubstantiated rumours* that say Anthropic has been sending exchanges to say Alibaba's Qwen, will you als oconclude the same about the entire US AI industry? I doubt it. * publish the logs.
- ifwinterco 5mo agoEven if it's true, it's not like US AI companies can complain, given their entire business is based on ripping off text without attribution
- maxdo 5mo agochinese ai is not doing the same? or they don't parse? they do except they also send thousands of sex-spies to do espionage of this kind on the scale.
- ifwinterco 5mo agoOf course they’re also doing this, my point is this is a grubby business where ethics went out of the window a long time ago. If you’re playing this game in 2026 you know the rules - anything goes
- ta20240528 5mo ago
- Aurornis 5mo agoThis was misinformed Twitter and Reddit drama. They had properly licensed it and were complying with the terms of the license.
- davidatbu 5mo agoNote that something that helped the misinformation was that, on Twitter, there were Kimi employees expressing their surprise that the base model was Kimi K2.5, and their indignation that Cursor didn't credit Kimi. They later deleted their tweets (what I infer from that is that some employees were not aware of some pre-existing agreement or understanding between Cursor and Kimi until the drama happened).
- vessenes 5mo agoSounds like it's the last Kimi-line model at Cursor? As expected they say they'll be training a larger model on the SpaceX infrastructure, or have already started most likely. I'm very curious to read about the Composer 3 architecture when it comes out. More frontier coding models are a good thing, especially if they diversify into different strengths/weaknesses.
- bfeynman 5mo agoThat only seems plausible if whatever corpse of xAI is around is giving them engineering time. I don't know if they hired a bunch of ex frontier lab staff but its unlikely they have the technical capability to train their own frontier models especially the pretraining. Because the thing is if its not competitive with claude/codex it will be panned.
- vessenes 5mo agoHmm, I read the situation a little differently. Grok is not a slouchy model. It’s not the best, but it’s not the worst. X currently has one source of proprietary data, Twitter, and grok is by far the best at all the things you might imagine there - today’s zeitgeist, who’s saying what, current news, etc. Cursor adds in a large corpus of proprietary coding data — I think this is actually fairly hard to acquire right now, because claude and codex are so good. I bet there’s enough talent at the Grok team to work with the cursor team and data to get something good out the door. That said, I don’t track Grok’s engineering leads — I’m not sure who’s currently around, and who is not.
- ccimmergreen 5mo agoUnlikely, given that large swathes of talent have already left xAI, ostensibly due to poor leadership management. Simply throwing money in to build the biggest datacenters in the world doesn't do much good without bright minds to back it up. https://www.fastcompany.com/91531084/inside-the-xai-exodus https://www.fastcompany.com/91531084/inside-the-xai-exodus
- scosman 5mo ago> I am optimistic Kimi K open models soon will outperform Opus models Hard to outperform the model you distill...
- intrasight 5mo agoIs that true? If the distillation is not lossy and the model runs much faster due to less resource consumption, then it may outperform.
- mwigdahl 5mo agoOne of those conditionals is a pretty huge assumption.
- intrasight 5mo agoIt's an assumption and it can be tested
- nl 5mo agoMost of the performance on coding comes from RL, not distillation. Distillation helps with world knowledge and things like that.
- Bolwin 5mo agoThey're not distilled. Stop spreading anthropics misuse of the term. They do use it for synthetic data/judging though, so yes, hard to outperform. Not that they need to. If they can basically match it for a fifth of the price.