4 ms·

The “wealth” will mostly be numbers in a database without an economy. Sure, they could have an island or disaster shelter, huge, elaborate, and well stocked, an

The “wealth” will mostly be numbers in a database without an economy. Sure, they could have an island or disaster shelter, huge, elaborate, and well stocked, and own lots of land, but even the land ownership is a paper filed in an office without a functioning government, which needs a functioning economy, to actually enforce keeping people off of the land. They can pay private security, but I feel like that has limits Essentially, I’m arguing they have more money than actual wealth, and they’re immeasurably poorer without a functioning society and economy

morkalork 5mo ago
Must be why they're all hot for humanoid robots: security that doesn't get paid or have families to worry about
- tremon 5mo ago
  Or might have their own opinion about certain orders.
- isomorphic 5mo ago
  This is just Terminator with extra steps. They cannot envision the scenario where their AI-powered robots turn on them, or at the very least are used against them (and then inevitably turn on everyone).
Imustaskforhelp 5mo ago
Yes! This is something that I have been saying or thinking about too but the rich people contrary to popular belief that they themselves sometimes believe in, but the best way for them to achieve growth is by improving the conditions of people in general. but the thing is, selfishness and short sightedness and facades/scapegoating. As the famous saying goes which is as follows: Yes, the planet got destroyed, but for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.
bodge5000 5mo ago
If 99% of people are living effectively outside the economy, those things they could have would too have to be entirely provided by AI (including the mining of materials and building of robots by other robots capable of doing that work). For ordinary people, if money becomes useless why would they take a job at building a shelter or providing private security? They might as well be offering monopoly money EDIT: An obvious response to this is that workers could be paid in food, rather than money, but that just kicks the can down the road. Who is making the food? The rich would still need to eat, so this would have to be done anyway, but the supply lines needed for food production are far more complex than private security or construction, if you've got that automated you could certainly automate the rest of it without needing workers.
- fwipsy 5mo ago
  Nobody can do jobs for money, so money is scarce, so nobody has/uses money, so money becomes worthless, so therefore even if jobs are available people won't do them? Things become worth more as they become scarecer, not less.
  - bodge5000 5mo ago
    > Things become worth more as they become scarecer, not less. It's a bit more nuanced than that. Generally speaking, in society as we know it, there's a point at which something becomes so scarce that it's value begins to drop because there's simply no use for it and no reason to find a use for it. The second part to this is that scarcity-based value is a product of our current society, and we're describing a society that diverges from that. This could go in many different ways, some that could well be a massive improvement to what we currently have, but for the sake of this argument, imagine everything goes very badly and people are starving to death. Would you trade a weeks worth of food for a diamond?
    - fwipsy 5mo ago
      If money remains backed by AI goods and services, it will remain valuable no matter how scare it gets. Scarcity raising prices is a fundamental law of economics. Your diamond example is just swapping which goods are scarce.
wisty 5mo ago
Or it's just shares in companies (productive or otherwise). People get mad over how much Bezos has, but if it's all Amazon shares who cares? It's spending, not saving that consumes scarce resources. Get mad about his jet, sure, but not his paper wealth.
colordrops 5mo ago
It's a race to get robot servants and warriors before the working classes rise up. They'll build their walled cybercities while everyone else is busy scavenging and sustenance farming.
tw04 5mo ago
You’re assuming they care what happens to their children when they’re gone. We’re talking about sociopaths. Sure they care more about their children than the random plebe walking down the street, but they definitely don’t care more about their children than their own personal desires. That’s empathy, and empathy is for the weak.
fwipsy 5mo ago
They have their bunkers but it's not plan A. Even a psychotic oligarch doesn't want to live in a hole in the ground while the world collapses around them. They want to own the world, perhaps remake it in their image, but not destroy it.
godelski 5mo ago
> Essentially, I’m arguing they have more money than actual wealth, and they’re immeasurably poorer without a functioning society and economy You can't rule over the dead. Though it's unfortunate that those in power don't seem to understand that their lives are much better than kings and queens of the past. Even the average person in a first world country lives much better than royalty from even a few hundred years ago. It's ironic, the pursuit of power usually limits its own growth. To maximize power you have to give it up, because it's multidimensional

morkalork 5mo ago

Must be why they're all hot for humanoid robots: security that doesn't get paid or have families to worry about

tremon 5mo ago
Or might have their own opinion about certain orders.
isomorphic 5mo ago
This is just Terminator with extra steps. They cannot envision the scenario where their AI-powered robots turn on them, or at the very least are used against them (and then inevitably turn on everyone).

Imustaskforhelp 5mo ago

Yes! This is something that I have been saying or thinking about too but the rich people contrary to popular belief that they themselves sometimes believe in, but the best way for them to achieve growth is by improving the conditions of people in general. but the thing is, selfishness and short sightedness and facades/scapegoating. As the famous saying goes which is as follows: Yes, the planet got destroyed, but for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.

bodge5000 5mo ago

If 99% of people are living effectively outside the economy, those things they could have would too have to be entirely provided by AI (including the mining of materials and building of robots by other robots capable of doing that work). For ordinary people, if money becomes useless why would they take a job at building a shelter or providing private security? They might as well be offering monopoly money EDIT: An obvious response to this is that workers could be paid in food, rather than money, but that just kicks the can down the road. Who is making the food? The rich would still need to eat, so this would have to be done anyway, but the supply lines needed for food production are far more complex than private security or construction, if you've got that automated you could certainly automate the rest of it without needing workers.

fwipsy 5mo ago
Nobody can do jobs for money, so money is scarce, so nobody has/uses money, so money becomes worthless, so therefore even if jobs are available people won't do them? Things become worth more as they become scarecer, not less.
- bodge5000 5mo ago
  > Things become worth more as they become scarecer, not less. It's a bit more nuanced than that. Generally speaking, in society as we know it, there's a point at which something becomes so scarce that it's value begins to drop because there's simply no use for it and no reason to find a use for it. The second part to this is that scarcity-based value is a product of our current society, and we're describing a society that diverges from that. This could go in many different ways, some that could well be a massive improvement to what we currently have, but for the sake of this argument, imagine everything goes very badly and people are starving to death. Would you trade a weeks worth of food for a diamond?
  - fwipsy 5mo ago
    If money remains backed by AI goods and services, it will remain valuable no matter how scare it gets. Scarcity raising prices is a fundamental law of economics. Your diamond example is just swapping which goods are scarce.

wisty 5mo ago

Or it's just shares in companies (productive or otherwise). People get mad over how much Bezos has, but if it's all Amazon shares who cares? It's spending, not saving that consumes scarce resources. Get mad about his jet, sure, but not his paper wealth.

colordrops 5mo ago

It's a race to get robot servants and warriors before the working classes rise up. They'll build their walled cybercities while everyone else is busy scavenging and sustenance farming.

tw04 5mo ago

You’re assuming they care what happens to their children when they’re gone. We’re talking about sociopaths. Sure they care more about their children than the random plebe walking down the street, but they definitely don’t care more about their children than their own personal desires. That’s empathy, and empathy is for the weak.

fwipsy 5mo ago

They have their bunkers but it's not plan A. Even a psychotic oligarch doesn't want to live in a hole in the ground while the world collapses around them. They want to own the world, perhaps remake it in their image, but not destroy it.

godelski 5mo ago

> Essentially, I’m arguing they have more money than actual wealth, and they’re immeasurably poorer without a functioning society and economy You can't rule over the dead. Though it's unfortunate that those in power don't seem to understand that their lives are much better than kings and queens of the past. Even the average person in a first world country lives much better than royalty from even a few hundred years ago. It's ironic, the pursuit of power usually limits its own growth. To maximize power you have to give it up, because it's multidimensional