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Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

138 points by srathi 14y ago

Matt_Cutts 14y ago
From the article: "In an interview on Wednesday, [Gabriel] Weinberg said it is difficult to make his DuckDuckGo the default search site in Google's Chrome web browser, and that Google disadvantages his company in the Android mobile operating system as well. .... "It's one-click to get onto Firefox and it's five steps on Chrome and people generally fail," he said. The Google spokeswoman said popular search alternatives were offered on its Chrome browser in a dropdown menu, such as Yahoo and Microsoft's Bing, but any search engine could be easily added."
- MichaelApproved 14y ago
  What's the qualification for a "popular search alternative" ? Is there a specific level of market share that's required before a SE can be included in that list?
- d0m 14y ago
  Which is totally true. Also, if one has already searched on DuckDuckGo, it's even easier to switch to it as it has been added to the search engine list.
- noibl 14y ago
  Wait, 'one-click'? In Firefox if I click the dropdown on the search field, then click 'Manage Search Engines' I get a dialog in which can be found a link to 'Get more search engines...'. Clicking that opens an add-ons store tab with the 'Search Tools' filter applied, none of whose above-the-fold suggestions has anything to do with DDG. That's not one-click, it's a runaround. In contrast, Chrome automatically adds search engines as you browse the web and lets you set any one of them as the default. It also has clearly labelled fields to let you create your own by copying the format of the ones listed. Getting to there takes 3 clicks and a scroll. Two reasonable gripes: the existence of the free-edit fields is not immediately obvious upon clicking 'Manage search engines...' and neither is the fact that the domain name in the second column is an editable keyword.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - delackner 14y ago
    Click-and-hold on the firefox search engine icon in the search field, and a list of engines appears. I clearly see "Add DuckDuckGo" as an option in that list while I am on the site, and you can slide the mouse over to that option and release. So yes, one click.
    - noibl 14y ago
      Thanks, now I get it. Having a UI cue when you're on the DDG website is a good idea.
    - eric-hu 14y ago
      I don't think this is available in Firefox for OS X, there's 2 icons in the search field and neither one responds to click-and-hold
      - rangibaby 14y ago
        Just click on the Google "G" (or whatever you have as your default search engine) when you are at the site and "Add DuckDuckGo" shows up as an option.
  - gnufied 14y ago
    I am not supporting DuckDuckgo's claim, but the procees is indeed less painful if you just install their extension, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-for-firefox/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-fo... I don't know why no such addon exists for Chrome? EDIT: Ugh I am woefully wrong, the Chrome extension only shows up when you visit the site from Chrome. Perhaps they mean choosing a default search engine in Chrome is not as straightforward as Firefox. You will have to open preferences -> Search -> Manage Search engines and then change the default engine.
    - drivingmenuts 14y ago
- rodion_89 14y ago
  I'm curious, how many clicks is it to replace Bing as the default in IE? Isn't it impossible for DDG to become the default in Safari? Not saying they're wrong to point it out, but rather that they should be consistent in pointing fingers if they do.
  - srathi 14y ago
    I couldn't agree more. It is a pain to set Google as default search provider in IE.
  - WrkInProgress 14y ago
    Fired up IE9 to take a look. One click on the search icon in the address bar and Bing and Ask.com (really?) are listed as two default search providers. There is an Add button which takes me to an Internet Explorer Add-On page. DDG and Google are highlighted as popular options. Click on the "tile" and another click to install. So 4 clicks for IE9. It's 4 clicks in Chrome (Menu - Settings - Settings - Manage Search Providers, to get to the "Manage Search Engines" screen but DDG is nowhere to be found. YOu have to manually add it and it isn't very clear how to do it because the textbox is truncated for the actual url.
    - itp 14y ago
      but DDG is nowhere to be found. YOu have to manually add it and it isn't very clear how to do it because the textbox is truncated for the actual url. Unless you visit duckduckgo.com once, at which point it's added to the list of "other search engines" on that page. Which seems like a totally reasonable way to manage that list, since otherwise Google is responsible for pre-populating and maintaining a comprehensive list of all other search engines out there. (This behavior was tested on Chrome 24, and I verified it by deleting the record for DuckDuckGo from my "other search engine" list, then visiting duckduckgo.com and reloading the list.)
    - tiglionabbit 14y ago
      DDG was in my list. Apparently it picks up options as you browse?
  - 14y ago
- bdonlan 14y ago
  I counted three clicks on Chrome: 1. Right-click on search bar when on duckduckgo.com 2. Click edit search engines 3. Next to DuckDuckGo (it's autodetected the first time you visit the site), click 'make default'. It's more clicks than firefox if you do it via the extension, but google's stance on blocking third-party extensions by default makes sense when you consider the threat of malicious extensions, and how most people don't read the permissions prompt.
  - amitamb 14y ago
    Search Provider is not an extension it is just a setting in your browser so I am not buying the argument that is is for security purposes. Also, these three steps are not intuitive i.e. you can't ask user to click a button on your website to initiate the change. While on Firefox, clicking on a button, a prompt gets shown to make your search engine default one. Even in case of Firefox, user has to explicitly click on check-box to make your search engine default. Try here http://www.verticalset.com/ http://www.verticalset.com/
- elssar 14y ago
  I don't know what he is talking about. I have my search engine settings page open and there are more than 20 different search engines listed that I can make default with one click, including Duck Duck Go! I like the idea and philosophy behind Duck Duck Go, but maybe improving the search results, which are no where near as good as Google's results, would help bring more traffic than whining about non-issues.
- yegg 14y ago
  If anyone is curious where this comes from, I wrote extensively about the usability issues with adding search engines to browsers here: http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2011/02/usability-issues-with-adding-search-engines-to-web-browsers.html http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2011/02/usability-issues...
cpg 14y ago
I have been a happy DDG user for more than two years and it's one of the best things I have done in a while. It works well, and it's great for productivity. So, that Google does not take it extra easy on them is not surprising. However, as Google matures, they will realize they need an AMD to their Intel. Something that poses little business threat, yet diffuses the antitrust threat. ... Watch.
- CaveTech 14y ago
  Bing already occupies that position.
  - greglindahl 14y ago
    When Google testifies before Congress, they tend to mention "Bing and Blekko" or "Bing and DuckDuckGo". Since Bing is losing a lot of money every quarter, and is owned by a pretty big company (M$), it's useful to have smaller, newer competitors around.
- barrkel 14y ago
  I set DDG as my default search in Firefox; the results were abysmal. It felt like being transported back to altavista.digital.com, wading through middling irrelevant links searching for info. I got fed up with having to put !g into every query to get a good result, I ended up switching to DuckDuckGoog instead (and this is my current search provider).
  - shawn-butler 14y ago
    This http://duckduckgo.com/feedback.html http://duckduckgo.com/feedback.html is a good place to place intelligent, constructive feedback. The web community (that is, all of us) really, really needs an alternative to Google. I don't care whether you love or hate them. We desperately need an alternative.
    - icelancer 14y ago
      MS spent gazillions of dollars trying to do it with Bing and isn't close yet. Google is simply the best service out there by a very wide margin. When people close the gap, there will be a viable alternative. There's no cosmic law that says there needs to be an alternative to product X.
rustynails 14y ago
I really like the idea of duckduckgo, but it just doesn't do it for me. As an example, I can't find articles posted in the last hour, let alone the last week (eg. iOS 6 jailbreak). I know it's slightly off topic, but this would certainly encourage me to use this - and I have a community around me that tends to adopt what I do.
- thrownaway2424 14y ago
  I agree. I have tried DDG and found their quality and freshness are both much worse than Google. Bing at least presents a credible alternative in terms of quality, depth, and freshness, but DDG is only good for people who actually don't care much if they find what they are looking for.
- id_ris 14y ago
  I've switched to using DDG over the past 6 months and use it as my main search engine because I think the results are as good as Google and there are less distractions, and I don't want my search history stored. If I need to search for news, images, etc then it's back to Google. For me it's akin to using the command line for most tasks, but every so often opening up a cluttered but easier to use GUI.
ck2 14y ago
Many people like DuckDuckGo for good reasons but let's be clear: It does not do any of it's own indexing. It's just a frontend to other very very expensive backends that have millions of dollars behind them. The entire company can be shut down overnight if it's data feeds are cut.
- joenathan 14y ago
  According to DuckDuckGo's FAQ you are wrong http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216399-sources http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216399-s... The DuckDuckBot crawls and indexes the web. http://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot.html http://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot.html
  - ck2 14y ago
    I suspect it's trivial at best. Every test search I've ever done on DDG shows near identical results to Bing. I'd like to see a search that uses it's own data, examples? Gigablast was the last serious third-party backend that had a chance for independent data. It's like old-school Google. Gabriel should try to buy Gigablast and merge it with DDG so he has his own independent dataset.
    - lubujackson 14y ago
      Blekko has millions behind it and does a full index of the web.
      - ck2 14y ago
        Ah now that is an interesting engine. Checking to see if it's hit any of our sites. 3k pages, not bad. Data is kinda stale though.
    - boyter 14y ago
      Gigablasts creator has made this now http://procog.com/ http://procog.com/ the results are better then gigablast.
  - 14y ago
blrgeek 14y ago
Excellent PR efforts by DuckDuckGo. But not entirely sure that the arguments presented in this article are valid and would sway a technical crowd. Given how trivial it was just now for me to switch to DDG in Chrome, I don't see how that's anti-competitive.
- notatoad 14y ago
  Excellent PR? It sounds like a bunch of lame whining to me. I didn't use DDG before, but I at least respected their work. This is just weak. Google has done great things for the tech world by building chrome and android and releasing them as free and open source, to attempt to bring them down because you think it takes too many clicks to change the default search engine is shameful. Yegg, if you don't like it build your own browser and mobile operating system.
  - blrgeek 14y ago
    You, the HN reader, are not the target of this. Of course it ticks you (and me) off the wrong way - but your reaction is likely an unintended consequence! It's excellent PR because it creates a coherent David Vs Goliath narrative that journos will buy and so will the bulk of the non-technical populace. A few more variations of this in different publications, and you'll see that it might seep into the public consciousness.
    - notatoad 14y ago
      Me, the HN reader, is who DDG markets to. They try to sell themselves as the search engine for the informed user - the people who care about privacy and understand how google tracks you. The "bulk of the non-technical populace" will see an article about search engines and skip over it. They will never in their lifetime change any setting on their computer away from the default.
      - blrgeek 14y ago
        Good point - till now DDG was marketing at us. Could this be where they're trying to move towards a more mainstream market? They did take VC funding, and they may need to show growth in the mainstream market to their investors.
iomike 14y ago
never heard of 'em.
- aymeric 14y ago
  It is a search engine that allows you to find pages on the internet. The name comes from the misspelling of a large number: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol
- iomike 14y ago
  Wow, lots of downvotes for a product that the general population doesn't know about. I think they know more about Bing than ddg.
aymeric 14y ago
I think we all see this as a marketing stunt from DuckDuckGo.
- adventured 14y ago
  Reminds me of Scott McNealy complaining about Microsoft instead of beating them with products in the market, while his company was busy imploding and becoming irrelevant. That's DDG's future if they go the route of whining instead of competing. Linux, Google, Apple, Oracle, Intuit, (and countless open source software like Apache) et al. demonstrated time and time again that Microsoft could be trounced. Yet there was McNealy whining like a baby to the trust busters, while his own company was melting down. Weinberg = McNealy
  - patrickaljord 14y ago
    At least Sun did Java, what has Weinberg brought with DDG? Nothing.
    - adventured 14y ago
      Sun was responsible for a lot of tremendous technology (understatement of the year), the only point was that while McNealy was whining, his company was burning.
javert 14y ago
Weinberg has absolutely no right to initiate force against Google. This disgusts me.
nixcraft 14y ago
I used to recommend DDG, but stopped doing so. DDG also blocked us for some unknown reasons. For examples, all of the following search terms I see results in Google, Yahoo/Bing in first top 5 positions for nixCraft, but not in duckduckgo: "bash for loop" "linux remove directory" "grep command" It appears that we are facing some sort of ban in DDG. I have already sent an email to DDG and now I am waiting for a reply.
crazypyro 14y ago
The only thing that caught my eye was Google redirecting duck.com to google.com when DDG expressed interest in purchasing the domain. That seems a little underhanded, but not illegal....
- AJ007 14y ago
  Yeah, doing a reverse IP lookup with domain tools shows a list of 1,029 domains currently directing to google.com (some direct to youtube.com) Duck Duck Go has a TM application filed on April 2, 2008. Google acquired duck.com's owner in 2010. There is a very reasonable case for a WIPO domain dispute, which isn't particularly costly (granted if Google lost, and then sued you it would be expensive.) Very good way to generate a lot of press coverage.
  - mbreese 14y ago
    > Duck Duck Go has a TM application filed on April 2, 2008. Google acquired duck.com's owner in 2010. For any sort of mark dispute, you shouldn't go by when Google acquired On2, you have to go by when On2 acquired the name. I assume this was closer to the domain creation date of 1995 (or the On2.com creation date of 1999).
    - mseebach2 14y ago
      Wouldn't it be a factor that On2 isn't/wasn't in the search space at all? Only after the Google acquisition did duck.com come to be associated with search, and then only by virtue of Google redirecting it to their main page.
      - gillianseed 14y ago
        Yes, On2 is/was a video codec technology company, and the reason for them owning duck.com was that they were previously named 'The Duck Corporation'.
- lubujackson 14y ago
  Although if that's Google's standard practice with domains, DDG really doesn't have a complaint.
Sephr 14y ago
They are completely forgetting about the standard cross-browser external.AddSearchProvider API. One-click install initiation works fine in both Chrome and Firefox in a DuckDuckGo + Google Suggest search plugin I put together at http://eligrey.com/blog/post/encrypted-duckduckgo-with-google-suggest-search-plugin http://eligrey.com/blog/post/encrypted-duckduckgo-with-googl...
mindprince 14y ago
On chrome, when I right click on the search bar on duckduckgo.com (or any site), I get an option to "Add as search engine...", on clicking it, I get a dialog box for specifying Name, Keyword and URL. What chrome can do is add a checkbox to this dialog box for making it the default search engine.
paulsutter 14y ago
This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?
- fudged71 14y ago
  Why are you here? This is entirely relevant to HN. How is a small business that does things uniquely supposed to get users when their biggest competitor is actively making it difficult to try the other service out? Regardless of whether their claims are true or not, that is.
- neya 14y ago
  While I agree with you on the problem solving part, I feel you are a bit aggressive. >Why is this article even on HN? I think its relevant because PG wrote an article about "frighteningly ambitious ideas" and DuckDuckGo seems to be inspired from it.
- javajosh 14y ago
  Why is your comment the #1 comment? I mean, I count 3, count them, 3 unsubstantiated claims: 1. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? I think it's safe to say, yes, there are some who do. I for one. 2. The problem DDG is solving is imaginary. Oh really? What precisely is that problem? Is it search itself that you're referring to, or the prospect of going up against Google? If the former, then you are delusional, and if the latter, there is nothing wrong with attempting to disrupt a monopoly. 3. A search engine costs billions of dollars. Actually, no. There is no rule of computer science that says that. If someone discovers a new, cheaper way to do search then cool! In answer to your final question, perhaps the reason this article is on HN is to inspire comments like yours, which are wrong, and then comments like mine, which correct comments like yours.
  - ok_craig 14y ago
    I think the imaginary problem he meant was searching without being "tracked." The vast majority of users simply don't care. The ones who do can get around it.
emehrkay 14y ago
Safari you have to edit your host file to point yahoo's search to ddg (which i did)
elssar 14y ago
Just for kicks I searched for 'search engine' on Google - once on Chrome(logged into my Google account), and once on Firefox(not logged in). Didn't get Google on the first page on either searche, did get google custom search engine though(which is a completely different thing). Duck Duck Go was in the first page both the times, as were Bing, Yahoo, some engine called Dogpile(never heard of 'em but it was #2 on Chrome), the Wikipedia article for Web search engine and a few other links. There was a list of popular search engines at the bottom of the page in Chrome, DDG wasn't there, but lots other were, and it was compiled from other sources. Don't see much discrimination there. Especially when they don't even list their search engine on the first page Chrome search screenie - http://goo.gl/HffYt http://goo.gl/HffYt Firefox search screenie - http://goo.gl/nUe7t http://goo.gl/nUe7t
- zem 14y ago
  dogpile was pretty big back in the day. they were the first popular "meta search engine", aggregating results from several other search engines.
adventured 14y ago
Maybe DDG should get around to actually competing in the search market by, you know, building its own search engine. Let's see if Weinberg has any real engineering chops, or if all he can do is complain. Until DDG bothers to step into the real search arena and compete, they get no interest from me.
warmwaffles 14y ago
What is wrong with people using Google's product and Google showing preference to their products first then others? I mean after all, you are using THEIR software running on THEIR system. Don't like it? Go use something else. No one is forcing you to use Chrome, etc...
- general_failure 14y ago
  exactly. DDG must make their own browser which doesn't allow the user to change the search engine. revenge!!!
neya 14y ago
First of all, in my opinion, executing a frighteningly ambitious idea[1] is like performing inception. You need the simplest version of the idea for it to be "planted" in the user's mind. People aren't using DDG much not because of any difficulties in the browser, because they don't want to. This is a very lame excuse. Google never won its users because they were able to convince users to set their Search Engine as default in their browsers. As for DDG, the problem starts their name - "DuckDuckGo". You don't need to be an analyst with years of experience to say that this won't work because even their name is not something that is a)Catchy b)Easily rememberable c)Simple. Contrast this with Google. That's just one quick, easy to remember word. Now compare, Duck+Duck+Go. That's three words and it seems long. It looks like they didn't put much thought into this. This is not to say that DDG didn't do their homework properly, but just that it seems a little immature, given their name and their strategy. It looks more like they just read PG's essay[1] and started something out of the quick inspiration. To kill a huge competitor like Google, you need to provide more value. Google is very hard to kill right now because, 1)Their search is vastly superior 2)a lot of people are locked into their ecosystem 3)They have created a valuable brand. No, by locked, I don't mean it's a bad thing. For example, I use Gmail, Google Contacts, Calendar, Blogger, Google Apps for my domains and a lot of other stuff because I want to. A single sign-in into their Eco-system lets me use all these services. And now, the best part is there's Android which seems to integrate all these things so easily like a snap that makes my life just a breeze. So, first you need to understand that Google is now more than a search engine. Because if it was, Bing would have overtook it long back. You need to analyze the reasons why people still use Google. It's not just a search engine that they're using it for. Google has taken years and years to build the trust factor into their users. It has taken them years to make all these users "fit" into their eco-system and create a tremendously valuable brand . It's not like that they did it in just one day. So, just starting a new search-engine and expecting people to join on board is not going to happen. Despite so many "Ad" controversies, Google is still the king here because of the trust factor that no one else in the industry is able to provide. The trust factor that they will remain here, unlike the rest is the most important value that they provide to their users. If you want to kill Google at this instant, you are going to do a lot more hardwork than you thought you should do, you need a brand of similar magnitude and the important essence here is the time and trust factor which everyone seems to ignore. [1]http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html
kushti 14y ago
Google's real motto: "Do evil and say don't be evil"
option_greek 14y ago
Frankly all this cry baby entitlement mentality lowers DDG in their users eyes. It makes one wonder if they are just another mouth piece for Microsoft (like Fair search camp).
ochoa 14y ago
This might be part of the problem http://duckduckgo.com/?q=duck+duck+go+says+it%27s+getting+shut+out http://duckduckgo.com/?q=duck+duck+go+says+it%27s+getting+sh... https://www.google.com/#q=duck+duck+go+says+its+getting+shut+out https://www.google.com/#q=duck+duck+go+says+its+getting+shut...
ekm2 14y ago
I am ardent DDG fan,but i cant seem to win over my non-CS buddies to use it,simply because duckduckgo sounds funny& laughable.I wish they could switch to a flashier name.
nicholassmith 14y ago
The biggest takeaway is that Google owns duck.com (through acquisition), duck.com pointed to a web page for the company they acquired up until DuckDuckGo made enquiries about potentially getting it, duck.com was then pointed toward google.com. That's probably the biggest dick-move Google has made, and they're perfectly within their rights to do it. It's still a dick-move, Google doesn't need to worry about DDG ever attaining marketshare in a meaningful manner, and DDG have said they're not interested in that.
bifrost 14y ago
DDG is my default search engine, I use it every day. It is vastly superior to using Google, and they don't track my searches, I don't really need any better reasons to use it. It is really annoying that I can't easily switch my default search engine in my phone, especially because typing things into the text entry bars basically feeds them straight into Google, which basically publicizes all I do on my phone. I can't stand Chrome as a browser on my laptops, so I don't use it, but if I did I probably would want to be able to switch my search engine as easily as you can in FF. I expect to see antitrust movement soon.
lazyjones 14y ago
Current Firefox Nightly uses Google for search when something is typed in the location bar even when a) DuckDuckGo is the default search engine, b) Google is removed from the search engines list completely. Go figure... I've lost all respect for both Mozilla and Google recently.
- lazyjones 14y ago
  Correction: a) when DuckDuckGo is the selected search engine. Changing the default search engine (from Firefox's perspective, not what the user thinks it is) apparently requires fiddling with about:config.
saumil07 14y ago
I worked in Search and on Search-related problems for nearly 4 years so here's my 2c. For most users Google is "muscle memory". It is quite good for most Search needs. The angles of attack that tech-savvy folks think are amazing (category filters, privacy, fancy CoverFlow UX, bigger index - all real differentiators tried by real companies) - most normals don't give a rat's ass about. IMO the only real ways to compete are as follows: a) build something specialized that is several-x better in the specialty (Kayak) b) build something on top of data that Google doesn't have (Facebook Search, whenever it stops sucking) c) go head-to-head with nearly equivalent quality and buy your way in on the CapEx and the Ad/Mktg dollars required to change muscle memory (Bing) Beyond that, most companies have had trouble w/ direct search because Google + Wikipedia gets the job done, by and large. SearchMe? Dead. Kosmix Search? Pivoted successfully before acquisition. Cuil? Dead. Mahalo Search? Pivoted several times away from Search. Qwiki? Pivoted successfully. The sad thing is that Search is such a fun and challenging space with so much work to be done; I want the space to be more competitive but most consumers like the status quo just fine. Lastly - a salute to @yegg for taking this one on. He's a far braver than I, and most others on this thread critiquing his work.
capo 14y ago
It's very disappointing that DDG is resorting to the same whinny PR tactics as the less than savory competitors. It's fairly easy and straight forward to add DDG to Chrome or Android, much easier than other platforms in fact, you’re not being “shut out” because you're not the default engine.

138 points by srathi 14y ago

From the article: "In an interview on Wednesday, [Gabriel] Weinberg said it is difficult to make his DuckDuckGo the default search site in Google's Chrome web browser, and that Google disadvantages his company in the Android mobile operating system as well. .... "It's one-click to get onto Firefox and it's five steps on Chrome and people generally fail," he said. The Google spokeswoman said popular search alternatives were offered on its Chrome browser in a dropdown menu, such as Yahoo and Microsoft's Bing, but any search engine could be easily added."

MichaelApproved 14y ago
What's the qualification for a "popular search alternative" ? Is there a specific level of market share that's required before a SE can be included in that list?
d0m 14y ago
Which is totally true. Also, if one has already searched on DuckDuckGo, it's even easier to switch to it as it has been added to the search engine list.
noibl 14y ago
Wait, 'one-click'? In Firefox if I click the dropdown on the search field, then click 'Manage Search Engines' I get a dialog in which can be found a link to 'Get more search engines...'. Clicking that opens an add-ons store tab with the 'Search Tools' filter applied, none of whose above-the-fold suggestions has anything to do with DDG. That's not one-click, it's a runaround. In contrast, Chrome automatically adds search engines as you browse the web and lets you set any one of them as the default. It also has clearly labelled fields to let you create your own by copying the format of the ones listed. Getting to there takes 3 clicks and a scroll. Two reasonable gripes: the existence of the free-edit fields is not immediately obvious upon clicking 'Manage search engines...' and neither is the fact that the domain name in the second column is an editable keyword.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- delackner 14y ago
  Click-and-hold on the firefox search engine icon in the search field, and a list of engines appears. I clearly see "Add DuckDuckGo" as an option in that list while I am on the site, and you can slide the mouse over to that option and release. So yes, one click.
  - noibl 14y ago
    Thanks, now I get it. Having a UI cue when you're on the DDG website is a good idea.
  - eric-hu 14y ago
    I don't think this is available in Firefox for OS X, there's 2 icons in the search field and neither one responds to click-and-hold
    - rangibaby 14y ago
      Just click on the Google "G" (or whatever you have as your default search engine) when you are at the site and "Add DuckDuckGo" shows up as an option.
- gnufied 14y ago
  I am not supporting DuckDuckgo's claim, but the procees is indeed less painful if you just install their extension, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-for-firefox/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/duckduckgo-fo... I don't know why no such addon exists for Chrome? EDIT: Ugh I am woefully wrong, the Chrome extension only shows up when you visit the site from Chrome. Perhaps they mean choosing a default search engine in Chrome is not as straightforward as Firefox. You will have to open preferences -> Search -> Manage Search engines and then change the default engine.
  - drivingmenuts 14y ago
rodion_89 14y ago
I'm curious, how many clicks is it to replace Bing as the default in IE? Isn't it impossible for DDG to become the default in Safari? Not saying they're wrong to point it out, but rather that they should be consistent in pointing fingers if they do.
- srathi 14y ago
  I couldn't agree more. It is a pain to set Google as default search provider in IE.
- WrkInProgress 14y ago
  Fired up IE9 to take a look. One click on the search icon in the address bar and Bing and Ask.com (really?) are listed as two default search providers. There is an Add button which takes me to an Internet Explorer Add-On page. DDG and Google are highlighted as popular options. Click on the "tile" and another click to install. So 4 clicks for IE9. It's 4 clicks in Chrome (Menu - Settings - Settings - Manage Search Providers, to get to the "Manage Search Engines" screen but DDG is nowhere to be found. YOu have to manually add it and it isn't very clear how to do it because the textbox is truncated for the actual url.
  - itp 14y ago
    but DDG is nowhere to be found. YOu have to manually add it and it isn't very clear how to do it because the textbox is truncated for the actual url. Unless you visit duckduckgo.com once, at which point it's added to the list of "other search engines" on that page. Which seems like a totally reasonable way to manage that list, since otherwise Google is responsible for pre-populating and maintaining a comprehensive list of all other search engines out there. (This behavior was tested on Chrome 24, and I verified it by deleting the record for DuckDuckGo from my "other search engine" list, then visiting duckduckgo.com and reloading the list.)
  - tiglionabbit 14y ago
    DDG was in my list. Apparently it picks up options as you browse?
- 14y ago
bdonlan 14y ago
I counted three clicks on Chrome: 1. Right-click on search bar when on duckduckgo.com 2. Click edit search engines 3. Next to DuckDuckGo (it's autodetected the first time you visit the site), click 'make default'. It's more clicks than firefox if you do it via the extension, but google's stance on blocking third-party extensions by default makes sense when you consider the threat of malicious extensions, and how most people don't read the permissions prompt.
- amitamb 14y ago
  Search Provider is not an extension it is just a setting in your browser so I am not buying the argument that is is for security purposes. Also, these three steps are not intuitive i.e. you can't ask user to click a button on your website to initiate the change. While on Firefox, clicking on a button, a prompt gets shown to make your search engine default one. Even in case of Firefox, user has to explicitly click on check-box to make your search engine default. Try here http://www.verticalset.com/ http://www.verticalset.com/
elssar 14y ago
I don't know what he is talking about. I have my search engine settings page open and there are more than 20 different search engines listed that I can make default with one click, including Duck Duck Go! I like the idea and philosophy behind Duck Duck Go, but maybe improving the search results, which are no where near as good as Google's results, would help bring more traffic than whining about non-issues.
yegg 14y ago
If anyone is curious where this comes from, I wrote extensively about the usability issues with adding search engines to browsers here: http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2011/02/usability-issues-with-adding-search-engines-to-web-browsers.html http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2011/02/usability-issues...

cpg 14y ago

I have been a happy DDG user for more than two years and it's one of the best things I have done in a while. It works well, and it's great for productivity. So, that Google does not take it extra easy on them is not surprising. However, as Google matures, they will realize they need an AMD to their Intel. Something that poses little business threat, yet diffuses the antitrust threat. ... Watch.

CaveTech 14y ago
Bing already occupies that position.
- greglindahl 14y ago
  When Google testifies before Congress, they tend to mention "Bing and Blekko" or "Bing and DuckDuckGo". Since Bing is losing a lot of money every quarter, and is owned by a pretty big company (M$), it's useful to have smaller, newer competitors around.
barrkel 14y ago
I set DDG as my default search in Firefox; the results were abysmal. It felt like being transported back to altavista.digital.com, wading through middling irrelevant links searching for info. I got fed up with having to put !g into every query to get a good result, I ended up switching to DuckDuckGoog instead (and this is my current search provider).
- shawn-butler 14y ago
  This http://duckduckgo.com/feedback.html http://duckduckgo.com/feedback.html is a good place to place intelligent, constructive feedback. The web community (that is, all of us) really, really needs an alternative to Google. I don't care whether you love or hate them. We desperately need an alternative.
  - icelancer 14y ago
    MS spent gazillions of dollars trying to do it with Bing and isn't close yet. Google is simply the best service out there by a very wide margin. When people close the gap, there will be a viable alternative. There's no cosmic law that says there needs to be an alternative to product X.

rustynails 14y ago

I really like the idea of duckduckgo, but it just doesn't do it for me. As an example, I can't find articles posted in the last hour, let alone the last week (eg. iOS 6 jailbreak). I know it's slightly off topic, but this would certainly encourage me to use this - and I have a community around me that tends to adopt what I do.

thrownaway2424 14y ago
I agree. I have tried DDG and found their quality and freshness are both much worse than Google. Bing at least presents a credible alternative in terms of quality, depth, and freshness, but DDG is only good for people who actually don't care much if they find what they are looking for.
id_ris 14y ago
I've switched to using DDG over the past 6 months and use it as my main search engine because I think the results are as good as Google and there are less distractions, and I don't want my search history stored. If I need to search for news, images, etc then it's back to Google. For me it's akin to using the command line for most tasks, but every so often opening up a cluttered but easier to use GUI.

ck2 14y ago

Many people like DuckDuckGo for good reasons but let's be clear: It does not do any of it's own indexing. It's just a frontend to other very very expensive backends that have millions of dollars behind them. The entire company can be shut down overnight if it's data feeds are cut.

joenathan 14y ago
According to DuckDuckGo's FAQ you are wrong http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216399-sources http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216399-s... The DuckDuckBot crawls and indexes the web. http://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot.html http://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot.html
- ck2 14y ago
  I suspect it's trivial at best. Every test search I've ever done on DDG shows near identical results to Bing. I'd like to see a search that uses it's own data, examples? Gigablast was the last serious third-party backend that had a chance for independent data. It's like old-school Google. Gabriel should try to buy Gigablast and merge it with DDG so he has his own independent dataset.
  - lubujackson 14y ago
    Blekko has millions behind it and does a full index of the web.
    - ck2 14y ago
      Ah now that is an interesting engine. Checking to see if it's hit any of our sites. 3k pages, not bad. Data is kinda stale though.
  - boyter 14y ago
    Gigablasts creator has made this now http://procog.com/ http://procog.com/ the results are better then gigablast.
- 14y ago

blrgeek 14y ago

Excellent PR efforts by DuckDuckGo. But not entirely sure that the arguments presented in this article are valid and would sway a technical crowd. Given how trivial it was just now for me to switch to DDG in Chrome, I don't see how that's anti-competitive.

notatoad 14y ago
Excellent PR? It sounds like a bunch of lame whining to me. I didn't use DDG before, but I at least respected their work. This is just weak. Google has done great things for the tech world by building chrome and android and releasing them as free and open source, to attempt to bring them down because you think it takes too many clicks to change the default search engine is shameful. Yegg, if you don't like it build your own browser and mobile operating system.
- blrgeek 14y ago
  You, the HN reader, are not the target of this. Of course it ticks you (and me) off the wrong way - but your reaction is likely an unintended consequence! It's excellent PR because it creates a coherent David Vs Goliath narrative that journos will buy and so will the bulk of the non-technical populace. A few more variations of this in different publications, and you'll see that it might seep into the public consciousness.
  - notatoad 14y ago
    Me, the HN reader, is who DDG markets to. They try to sell themselves as the search engine for the informed user - the people who care about privacy and understand how google tracks you. The "bulk of the non-technical populace" will see an article about search engines and skip over it. They will never in their lifetime change any setting on their computer away from the default.
    - blrgeek 14y ago
      Good point - till now DDG was marketing at us. Could this be where they're trying to move towards a more mainstream market? They did take VC funding, and they may need to show growth in the mainstream market to their investors.

iomike 14y ago

never heard of 'em.

aymeric 14y ago
It is a search engine that allows you to find pages on the internet. The name comes from the misspelling of a large number: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol
iomike 14y ago
Wow, lots of downvotes for a product that the general population doesn't know about. I think they know more about Bing than ddg.

aymeric 14y ago

I think we all see this as a marketing stunt from DuckDuckGo.

adventured 14y ago
Reminds me of Scott McNealy complaining about Microsoft instead of beating them with products in the market, while his company was busy imploding and becoming irrelevant. That's DDG's future if they go the route of whining instead of competing. Linux, Google, Apple, Oracle, Intuit, (and countless open source software like Apache) et al. demonstrated time and time again that Microsoft could be trounced. Yet there was McNealy whining like a baby to the trust busters, while his own company was melting down. Weinberg = McNealy
- patrickaljord 14y ago
  At least Sun did Java, what has Weinberg brought with DDG? Nothing.
  - adventured 14y ago
    Sun was responsible for a lot of tremendous technology (understatement of the year), the only point was that while McNealy was whining, his company was burning.

javert 14y ago

Weinberg has absolutely no right to initiate force against Google. This disgusts me.

nixcraft 14y ago

I used to recommend DDG, but stopped doing so. DDG also blocked us for some unknown reasons. For examples, all of the following search terms I see results in Google, Yahoo/Bing in first top 5 positions for nixCraft, but not in duckduckgo: "bash for loop" "linux remove directory" "grep command" It appears that we are facing some sort of ban in DDG. I have already sent an email to DDG and now I am waiting for a reply.

crazypyro 14y ago

The only thing that caught my eye was Google redirecting duck.com to google.com when DDG expressed interest in purchasing the domain. That seems a little underhanded, but not illegal....

AJ007 14y ago
Yeah, doing a reverse IP lookup with domain tools shows a list of 1,029 domains currently directing to google.com (some direct to youtube.com) Duck Duck Go has a TM application filed on April 2, 2008. Google acquired duck.com's owner in 2010. There is a very reasonable case for a WIPO domain dispute, which isn't particularly costly (granted if Google lost, and then sued you it would be expensive.) Very good way to generate a lot of press coverage.
- mbreese 14y ago
  > Duck Duck Go has a TM application filed on April 2, 2008. Google acquired duck.com's owner in 2010. For any sort of mark dispute, you shouldn't go by when Google acquired On2, you have to go by when On2 acquired the name. I assume this was closer to the domain creation date of 1995 (or the On2.com creation date of 1999).
  - mseebach2 14y ago
    Wouldn't it be a factor that On2 isn't/wasn't in the search space at all? Only after the Google acquisition did duck.com come to be associated with search, and then only by virtue of Google redirecting it to their main page.
    - gillianseed 14y ago
      Yes, On2 is/was a video codec technology company, and the reason for them owning duck.com was that they were previously named 'The Duck Corporation'.
lubujackson 14y ago
Although if that's Google's standard practice with domains, DDG really doesn't have a complaint.

Sephr 14y ago

They are completely forgetting about the standard cross-browser external.AddSearchProvider API. One-click install initiation works fine in both Chrome and Firefox in a DuckDuckGo + Google Suggest search plugin I put together at http://eligrey.com/blog/post/encrypted-duckduckgo-with-google-suggest-search-plugin http://eligrey.com/blog/post/encrypted-duckduckgo-with-googl...

mindprince 14y ago

On chrome, when I right click on the search bar on duckduckgo.com (or any site), I get an option to "Add as search engine...", on clicking it, I get a dialog box for specifying Name, Keyword and URL. What chrome can do is add a checkbox to this dialog box for making it the default search engine.

paulsutter 14y ago

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

fudged71 14y ago
Why are you here? This is entirely relevant to HN. How is a small business that does things uniquely supposed to get users when their biggest competitor is actively making it difficult to try the other service out? Regardless of whether their claims are true or not, that is.
neya 14y ago
While I agree with you on the problem solving part, I feel you are a bit aggressive. >Why is this article even on HN? I think its relevant because PG wrote an article about "frighteningly ambitious ideas" and DuckDuckGo seems to be inspired from it.
javajosh 14y ago
Why is your comment the #1 comment? I mean, I count 3, count them, 3 unsubstantiated claims: 1. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? I think it's safe to say, yes, there are some who do. I for one. 2. The problem DDG is solving is imaginary. Oh really? What precisely is that problem? Is it search itself that you're referring to, or the prospect of going up against Google? If the former, then you are delusional, and if the latter, there is nothing wrong with attempting to disrupt a monopoly. 3. A search engine costs billions of dollars. Actually, no. There is no rule of computer science that says that. If someone discovers a new, cheaper way to do search then cool! In answer to your final question, perhaps the reason this article is on HN is to inspire comments like yours, which are wrong, and then comments like mine, which correct comments like yours.
- ok_craig 14y ago
  I think the imaginary problem he meant was searching without being "tracked." The vast majority of users simply don't care. The ones who do can get around it.

emehrkay 14y ago

Safari you have to edit your host file to point yahoo's search to ddg (which i did)

elssar 14y ago

Just for kicks I searched for 'search engine' on Google - once on Chrome(logged into my Google account), and once on Firefox(not logged in). Didn't get Google on the first page on either searche, did get google custom search engine though(which is a completely different thing). Duck Duck Go was in the first page both the times, as were Bing, Yahoo, some engine called Dogpile(never heard of 'em but it was #2 on Chrome), the Wikipedia article for Web search engine and a few other links. There was a list of popular search engines at the bottom of the page in Chrome, DDG wasn't there, but lots other were, and it was compiled from other sources. Don't see much discrimination there. Especially when they don't even list their search engine on the first page Chrome search screenie - http://goo.gl/HffYt http://goo.gl/HffYt Firefox search screenie - http://goo.gl/nUe7t http://goo.gl/nUe7t

zem 14y ago
dogpile was pretty big back in the day. they were the first popular "meta search engine", aggregating results from several other search engines.

adventured 14y ago

Maybe DDG should get around to actually competing in the search market by, you know, building its own search engine. Let's see if Weinberg has any real engineering chops, or if all he can do is complain. Until DDG bothers to step into the real search arena and compete, they get no interest from me.

warmwaffles 14y ago

What is wrong with people using Google's product and Google showing preference to their products first then others? I mean after all, you are using THEIR software running on THEIR system. Don't like it? Go use something else. No one is forcing you to use Chrome, etc...

general_failure 14y ago
exactly. DDG must make their own browser which doesn't allow the user to change the search engine. revenge!!!

neya 14y ago

First of all, in my opinion, executing a frighteningly ambitious idea[1] is like performing inception. You need the simplest version of the idea for it to be "planted" in the user's mind. People aren't using DDG much not because of any difficulties in the browser, because they don't want to. This is a very lame excuse. Google never won its users because they were able to convince users to set their Search Engine as default in their browsers. As for DDG, the problem starts their name - "DuckDuckGo". You don't need to be an analyst with years of experience to say that this won't work because even their name is not something that is a)Catchy b)Easily rememberable c)Simple. Contrast this with Google. That's just one quick, easy to remember word. Now compare, Duck+Duck+Go. That's three words and it seems long. It looks like they didn't put much thought into this. This is not to say that DDG didn't do their homework properly, but just that it seems a little immature, given their name and their strategy. It looks more like they just read PG's essay[1] and started something out of the quick inspiration. To kill a huge competitor like Google, you need to provide more value. Google is very hard to kill right now because, 1)Their search is vastly superior 2)a lot of people are locked into their ecosystem 3)They have created a valuable brand. No, by locked, I don't mean it's a bad thing. For example, I use Gmail, Google Contacts, Calendar, Blogger, Google Apps for my domains and a lot of other stuff because I want to. A single sign-in into their Eco-system lets me use all these services. And now, the best part is there's Android which seems to integrate all these things so easily like a snap that makes my life just a breeze. So, first you need to understand that Google is now more than a search engine. Because if it was, Bing would have overtook it long back. You need to analyze the reasons why people still use Google. It's not just a search engine that they're using it for. Google has taken years and years to build the trust factor into their users. It has taken them years to make all these users "fit" into their eco-system and create a tremendously valuable brand . It's not like that they did it in just one day. So, just starting a new search-engine and expecting people to join on board is not going to happen. Despite so many "Ad" controversies, Google is still the king here because of the trust factor that no one else in the industry is able to provide. The trust factor that they will remain here, unlike the rest is the most important value that they provide to their users. If you want to kill Google at this instant, you are going to do a lot more hardwork than you thought you should do, you need a brand of similar magnitude and the important essence here is the time and trust factor which everyone seems to ignore. [1]http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html

kushti 14y ago

Google's real motto: "Do evil and say don't be evil"

option_greek 14y ago

Frankly all this cry baby entitlement mentality lowers DDG in their users eyes. It makes one wonder if they are just another mouth piece for Microsoft (like Fair search camp).

ochoa 14y ago

This might be part of the problem http://duckduckgo.com/?q=duck+duck+go+says+it%27s+getting+shut+out http://duckduckgo.com/?q=duck+duck+go+says+it%27s+getting+sh... https://www.google.com/#q=duck+duck+go+says+its+getting+shut+out https://www.google.com/#q=duck+duck+go+says+its+getting+shut...

ekm2 14y ago

I am ardent DDG fan,but i cant seem to win over my non-CS buddies to use it,simply because duckduckgo sounds funny& laughable.I wish they could switch to a flashier name.

nicholassmith 14y ago

The biggest takeaway is that Google owns duck.com (through acquisition), duck.com pointed to a web page for the company they acquired up until DuckDuckGo made enquiries about potentially getting it, duck.com was then pointed toward google.com. That's probably the biggest dick-move Google has made, and they're perfectly within their rights to do it. It's still a dick-move, Google doesn't need to worry about DDG ever attaining marketshare in a meaningful manner, and DDG have said they're not interested in that.

bifrost 14y ago

DDG is my default search engine, I use it every day. It is vastly superior to using Google, and they don't track my searches, I don't really need any better reasons to use it. It is really annoying that I can't easily switch my default search engine in my phone, especially because typing things into the text entry bars basically feeds them straight into Google, which basically publicizes all I do on my phone. I can't stand Chrome as a browser on my laptops, so I don't use it, but if I did I probably would want to be able to switch my search engine as easily as you can in FF. I expect to see antitrust movement soon.

lazyjones 14y ago

Current Firefox Nightly uses Google for search when something is typed in the location bar even when a) DuckDuckGo is the default search engine, b) Google is removed from the search engines list completely. Go figure... I've lost all respect for both Mozilla and Google recently.

lazyjones 14y ago
Correction: a) when DuckDuckGo is the selected search engine. Changing the default search engine (from Firefox's perspective, not what the user thinks it is) apparently requires fiddling with about:config.

saumil07 14y ago

I worked in Search and on Search-related problems for nearly 4 years so here's my 2c. For most users Google is "muscle memory". It is quite good for most Search needs. The angles of attack that tech-savvy folks think are amazing (category filters, privacy, fancy CoverFlow UX, bigger index - all real differentiators tried by real companies) - most normals don't give a rat's ass about. IMO the only real ways to compete are as follows: a) build something specialized that is several-x better in the specialty (Kayak) b) build something on top of data that Google doesn't have (Facebook Search, whenever it stops sucking) c) go head-to-head with nearly equivalent quality and buy your way in on the CapEx and the Ad/Mktg dollars required to change muscle memory (Bing) Beyond that, most companies have had trouble w/ direct search because Google + Wikipedia gets the job done, by and large. SearchMe? Dead. Kosmix Search? Pivoted successfully before acquisition. Cuil? Dead. Mahalo Search? Pivoted several times away from Search. Qwiki? Pivoted successfully. The sad thing is that Search is such a fun and challenging space with so much work to be done; I want the space to be more competitive but most consumers like the status quo just fine. Lastly - a salute to @yegg for taking this one on. He's a far braver than I, and most others on this thread critiquing his work.

capo 14y ago

It's very disappointing that DDG is resorting to the same whinny PR tactics as the less than savory competitors. It's fairly easy and straight forward to add DDG to Chrome or Android, much easier than other platforms in fact, you’re not being “shut out” because you're not the default engine.