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I don’t know anything about anything but it feels kind of amazing that all four ejected with good looking parachutes given the orientation of the conglomerated
by Waterluvian 5mo ago
I don’t know anything about anything but it feels kind of amazing that all four ejected with good looking parachutes given the orientation of the conglomerated plane.
- binary132 5mo agoI had the same thought, but those cockpit modules are really designed to maximize the odds of safe ejection, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they consider the possibility of failure and escape as part of the stunt design. Still, it’s amazing everything worked out, especially at that low of an altitude.
- dbcurtis 5mo agoDo we know if the pilots are OK? Yes, ejection can save your life, but even in a best-case scenario the forces on the human body are incredibly ugly. I know a former combat-rated RAF pilot that had to eject from a Harrier because of a low-altitude bird strike. After 6 months in the infirmary, he emerged 2cm shorter, combat rating gone forever.
- jcgrillo 5mo agoArms and legs can take a serious beating too. Airplane cockpits are pretty tight spaces, and to be explosively shot out of one with little notice is.. yikes.
- userbinator 5mo agoThe pilots themselves initiated their ejections.
- jcgrillo 5mo agoAdmittedly I have nowhere near the flight hours, training, or expertise of these pilots, but having flown airplanes myself I can totally imagine in an off-nominal situation (which I have been in before) conscious focus is fully on flying the airplane even if your rote lizard brain is procedurally going through the motions of pulling the ejection handles or otherwise responding to the emergency. My instructor's words--he was a helicopter pilot (Hueys and Chinooks) in the Vietnam war with some 20k hrs logged in complex aircraft, jets, etc. since so I know for certain he knew wtf he was talking about--going through my head "do not ever stop flying the airplane". In this case, my conscious focus would be to stomp one of those rudder pedals as hard as I could to try to recover from the spin, even if I was also simultaneously yelling "eject" or whatever you're told to into the intercom and pulling the handles. But I haven't ever been trained to eject from an aircraft, or maybe my instinctive predilections would select me out of the training regimen these pilots go through.. who knows
- dghlsakjg 5mo agoAlso, these are aircraft with two crew. Either can initiate the ejection sequence, at which point both crew will be ejected regardless of who initiated if I’m not mistaken. I’ve never trained to eject, but I have trained in situations with parachutes, and the advice is to deploy early. If the thought crosses your mind, the answer is yes.
- jcgrillo 5mo agoYes, that too
- philipwhiuk 5mo agoSufficient training overrides your lizard brain. But yes, pilots still trying to fix stuff when they should have ejected is a common problem.
- drob518 5mo agoI would think that when the two planes struck each other both of the pilots would have realized that something had gone seriously wrong and things were not going to be recoverable with a checklist. But yea, in other situations where it isn’t as clear cut, I can definitely imagine a pilot trying to work the problem all the way into the ground.
- dboreham 5mo agoEjection is often a career-ending event, unfortunately. Better than dying though.
- stingraycharles 5mo agoHow so, because of the damage to the body?
- kube-system 5mo agoThey impart significant g forces (~15g) in line with the spine. Compression fractures are common, and most people permanently lose height as a result of the event. The goal is to provide a result better than death.
- kevin_thibedeau 5mo agoYou're generally limited to two ejections barring any disqualifying health issues. The military doesn't like to throw away its personnel investments when they've gained some hard won experience.
- drob518 5mo agoNeedless to say, crashing jets at an air show is not going to help anyone’s career.
- Recurecur 5mo agoTo my eye, only the pilot of the rearmost plane is in trouble. The one in front was (more or less) flying straight ahead. It’ll be interesting to see the official findings.
- drob518 5mo agoAgreed. It only takes one of them to have an issue or be out of position. Like you say, it’ll be interesting to see what they come back with after a thorough investigation.
- binary132 5mo agoI mean, there’s “OK”, and then there’s “not in that flaming heap of exploding shrapnel” OK, so I guess it’s on a spectrum. But I guess they’re “OK-ish”, based on the fact that the seats seemingly cleared the wreck and the parachutes deployed. But yeah, I guess someone definitely could have gotten injured or worse in the tangle. I would imagine that would probably have also resulted in visible damage to the ejection module, though.
- stephen_g 5mo agoYeah it's pretty incredible, the way they came together the plane on top came pretty close to blocking the canopy of the bottom one, if it had gone a bit differently those pilots could have had nowhere to go but into the bottom of the other aircraft!
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- Levitating 5mo agoI think these ejection seats work in more or less any orientation. I am more surprised that they didn't immediately blow up or lose control after colliding. Or even that the crew took that long to eject.
- dboreham 5mo agoThe aircraft appear to have become "stuck" to each other perhaps due to aerodynamic forces similar to how a piece of paper gets stuck to a car windshield (probably something to do with one of the Bernoullis). There wasn't much of an impact to cause a destructive event such as compressor stall. Perhaps the pilots were waiting to see if the aircraft would become un-stuck, or to get clear airspace into which they could eject?
- stingraycharles 5mo agoThat’s my read as well, but I’m looking forward for an official analysis as things often aren’t as they appear.
- Rover222 5mo agoI actually looks like the vertical stabilizer of the lower plane got lodged into the fuselage of the other.
- dylan604 5mo agoThe ejection seat is going to do its thing regardless of orientation, but if that orientation is pointed at the ground you better hope you have enough altitude. There was one plane where the ejection seats ejected down and away from the plane that was known for low altitude missions. These seats were affectionately known as lawn darts.
- rob74 5mo agoI think that plane is the Lockheed Starfighter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter#Ejection_seat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter#Eje...). Fortunately they were eventually replaced with upward-firing ejection seats. And the "lawn dart" moniker refers to the airplane itself - probably because of the absurdly short wings, which are also placed pretty far back.
- somenameforme 5mo agoSomething that seems interesting to me is that they all ejected at nearly the identical time. I'm curious if those systems are automated in case of scenarios like an unconscious pilot. If so, there may be automated clearance/angle systems, but that's speculation on top of speculation.
- rationalist 5mo agoI'm guessing they coordinated by voice so that they didn't hit each other (again). If one ejects, then the plane rolls, the next person to eject could launch into someone else.
- stymaar 5mo agoIt stuck me as well. My uninformed guess is that it took both pilots roughly the same amount of time to run through their OODA (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) loop and conclude their plane was not recoverable and eject. And for both crew members of the same plane ejecting at the same time, I think the ejection of the second personnel is automated should the first one eject. (Not familiar with the F-18 fighter at all but I know it's like that in other fighters with two crew members).
- actionfromafar 5mo agoOff topic but ... "What is the Boyd Theory? To many it is simply the OODA loop depicting the human behavioral cycle of decision-making. To others it is a description of command and control. To true believers, it is a profound theory of warfare." -- Some other Military Dude
- Rp8yXmdmr 5mo agoIt looks like there is a switch with "both"/solo"/"forward" option and the "both" option automates that tiny delay between both ejections. On the other hand ejections from both planes at same time is just pilots reaction speed.
- martheen 5mo ago
- jquery 5mo ago75% of out-of-envelope ejections are fatal. A spinning aircraft that just started making out with another plane is definitely OOE. Those 4 pilots are incredibly lucky, assuming they all survived (looks like it?)
- vablings 5mo agoThanks to the great engineering at martin baker, if you check out the instagram page they have a running count of how many pilots have been saved by the seats. Was interesting to see a +4 today for a rolling total of 7820