4 ms·

Maybe for some subset of sotware (like CRM panels or something) PMs will do everything. But if you're projecting the way one sort of software (ie user-facing, b

Maybe for some subset of sotware (like CRM panels or something) PMs will do everything. But if you're projecting the way one sort of software (ie user-facing, business use oriented software) is developed and put to use with software writ large, then no I don't think so

satvikpendem 5mo ago
Sure, I'm just talking about 90% of software which is basic CRUD, not complex systems or microcontroller programming. In that case it's likely that just a PM could build something with LLMs.
- sarchertech 5mo ago
  For basic CRUD we’ve had no code solutions that PMs could have been using for decades. The truth of the matter is that software starts as basic CRUD and then given time and users evolves into its own special snowflake. Every single system given enough time and users will become a “complex system”.
  - satvikpendem 5mo ago
    The difference is no code tools are not flexible in the same way LLMs are. As long as PMs can articulate those snowflake requirements to the LLM then it will happily build it.
    - sarchertech 5mo ago
      Sure for a few. But eventually the interaction of all those complex features turns it into a “complex system”. Which as you yourself just said are not conducive to PM vibe coding.
      - satvikpendem 5mo ago
        I'd say the majority of these sorts of tools are actually simple enough to be vibe coded, only some are complex enough to require an actual engineer building it rather than vibe coding. So in most cases it's actually a win for the PM.
        sarchertech 5mo ago
        Only if you’re talking about tools with very few users that haven’t been around long. In my experience the conflicting requirements and workflows that accrete over time are too complex for people to reason about without more formal methods.
        satvikpendem 5mo ago
        > Only if you’re talking about tools with very few users that haven’t been around long Sure, most business needs only have a few users. I once built a dashboard over the course of a year only for a grand total of around 10 business executives to actually use it.
        sarchertech 5mo ago
        For dashboard with 10 users vibe coding is almost definitely viable. But so is no code. If you are looking at just number it apps things like that might actually be 90% of all commercial applications out there. But if you look at where developers spend there time it just number of devs working on them, it’s nowhere near 90%. There is some subset of applications that is too complex for no code but not too complex for vibe coding. If that was the niche you were working in you might need to find something else, but I’d be shocked if that employs enough people to have a negative impact on overall software dev job/salary growth.

satvikpendem 5mo ago

Sure, I'm just talking about 90% of software which is basic CRUD, not complex systems or microcontroller programming. In that case it's likely that just a PM could build something with LLMs.

sarchertech 5mo ago
For basic CRUD we’ve had no code solutions that PMs could have been using for decades. The truth of the matter is that software starts as basic CRUD and then given time and users evolves into its own special snowflake. Every single system given enough time and users will become a “complex system”.
- satvikpendem 5mo ago
  The difference is no code tools are not flexible in the same way LLMs are. As long as PMs can articulate those snowflake requirements to the LLM then it will happily build it.
  - sarchertech 5mo ago
    Sure for a few. But eventually the interaction of all those complex features turns it into a “complex system”. Which as you yourself just said are not conducive to PM vibe coding.
    - satvikpendem 5mo ago
      I'd say the majority of these sorts of tools are actually simple enough to be vibe coded, only some are complex enough to require an actual engineer building it rather than vibe coding. So in most cases it's actually a win for the PM.
      - sarchertech 5mo ago
        Only if you’re talking about tools with very few users that haven’t been around long. In my experience the conflicting requirements and workflows that accrete over time are too complex for people to reason about without more formal methods.
        satvikpendem 5mo ago
        > Only if you’re talking about tools with very few users that haven’t been around long Sure, most business needs only have a few users. I once built a dashboard over the course of a year only for a grand total of around 10 business executives to actually use it.
        sarchertech 5mo ago
        For dashboard with 10 users vibe coding is almost definitely viable. But so is no code. If you are looking at just number it apps things like that might actually be 90% of all commercial applications out there. But if you look at where developers spend there time it just number of devs working on them, it’s nowhere near 90%. There is some subset of applications that is too complex for no code but not too complex for vibe coding. If that was the niche you were working in you might need to find something else, but I’d be shocked if that employs enough people to have a negative impact on overall software dev job/salary growth.