3 ms·

This may be a nit or it may be something deeper, but I think you've jumped the rails when you attempt to associate Hindu nationalism with TESCREAL. Hindu nation

by tptacek 6mo ago

This may be a nit or it may be something deeper, but I think you've jumped the rails when you attempt to associate Hindu nationalism with TESCREAL. Hindu nationalism is a much bigger (and older) phenomenon than anything happening in SFBA.

JuniperMesos 6mo ago
This article doesn't even consider the question of whether Meta's platforms have amplified Muslim supremacist content that incites violence against non-Muslim communities to an equal or greater degree than it's done so for Hindu nationalists in India. I don't think this is because the author is a Muslim himself; but rather that he has bought into the frame that Muslims are marginalized and Hindus are not, and therefore any technological phenomenon in the world that seems like Hindus use successfully to advance their interests is fascist, and any technological phenomenon that seems like Muslims use successfully to advance their own interests is not worth talking about in the context of fascism.
- nyssos 6mo ago
  The relevant paragraph literally starts with "In India", where, yes, it's obviously the case that Hindus are not marginalized.
pron 6mo ago
I have no idea if the accusation levelled toward Meta is true or not, but I think the claim made by the article is both logical and clear: technofascism seeks to weaken democratic institutions, and to do so it exploits existing nationalist feelings that seek to do the same.
- tptacek 6mo ago
  I think I weakly agree directionally with all that stuff, but think the post is on less stable footing when it implies how strongly these phenomenon have been determined by TESCREAL right-wingers. Those people surely exist, and technology has surely amplified all the worst things in society (some of the good too, of course). But how big a deal they are? Not as sure. What I am pretty confident of is that people like Yarvin love articles like these. It makes them seem so important!
  - pron 6mo ago
    The question of how intellectual ideas gain political influence is always a tough one. John Ganz tries to trace right-wing ideologies and their influence at different times and places (mostly America, France, Italy, and Germany), from the Third French Republic until America today (and wrote a book about those ideas in the nineties). Here's a couple of random entries: https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/theyre-all-like-that https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/theyre-all-like-that
tolerance 6mo ago
I'd challenge the author to try to make it work anyway. At a glance there's 8 converging paths to take to understand TESCREAL as a whole. It may not be as asymmetric as it looks. Or maybe so. Would be a trip to read anyhow.
- bluegatty 6mo ago
  'TESCREAL' is a made up boogeyman from an agitator from another political extreme. It's a word to get people to 'rally around' because the negative acts of Theil etc are just not easily defined or incorporated and therefore might not resonate very well. TESCREAL is like 'Rothschild', a nebulous 'stand in term' for what might be some very concerning actions, but which is nevertheless 'not real'. Skip the boogeyman and understand the real problems of concentrated power and egos.
  - tolerance 6mo ago
    > Skip the boogeyman and understand the real problems of concentrated power and egos. Where would you start.
    - bluegatty 6mo ago
      The Pharaohs, Mesopotamian Kings, Homer, Caesar + all of Empire era Rome, Genghis Khan, Crusades, all of Chinese History, Feudal Europe, Napoleon, etc. etc.. Or contemporary famous people. Michael Jackson. Donald Trump. The entire Epstein Saga. It's the oldest story. Just study powerful people, they're all wonky. Powerful people are not 'checked' by those around them - they are rule setters, not rule takers. Also - they have enablers to make them extra crazy. There's like an 'inflection point' along the the path to power where the crazy really starts to take off. It's why Warren Buffer, Bill Gates are generally pretty good men. They're constantly looking right into the Eye of Sauron yet they remain relatively normal. They probably have normal people around them, and Buffet's lifestyle is down to Earth, just the numbers are big.
      - cindyllm 6mo ago
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]

by tptacek 6mo ago

JuniperMesos 6mo ago

This article doesn't even consider the question of whether Meta's platforms have amplified Muslim supremacist content that incites violence against non-Muslim communities to an equal or greater degree than it's done so for Hindu nationalists in India. I don't think this is because the author is a Muslim himself; but rather that he has bought into the frame that Muslims are marginalized and Hindus are not, and therefore any technological phenomenon in the world that seems like Hindus use successfully to advance their interests is fascist, and any technological phenomenon that seems like Muslims use successfully to advance their own interests is not worth talking about in the context of fascism.

nyssos 6mo ago
The relevant paragraph literally starts with "In India", where, yes, it's obviously the case that Hindus are not marginalized.

pron 6mo ago

I have no idea if the accusation levelled toward Meta is true or not, but I think the claim made by the article is both logical and clear: technofascism seeks to weaken democratic institutions, and to do so it exploits existing nationalist feelings that seek to do the same.

tptacek 6mo ago
I think I weakly agree directionally with all that stuff, but think the post is on less stable footing when it implies how strongly these phenomenon have been determined by TESCREAL right-wingers. Those people surely exist, and technology has surely amplified all the worst things in society (some of the good too, of course). But how big a deal they are? Not as sure. What I am pretty confident of is that people like Yarvin love articles like these. It makes them seem so important!
- pron 6mo ago
  The question of how intellectual ideas gain political influence is always a tough one. John Ganz tries to trace right-wing ideologies and their influence at different times and places (mostly America, France, Italy, and Germany), from the Third French Republic until America today (and wrote a book about those ideas in the nineties). Here's a couple of random entries: https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/theyre-all-like-that https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/theyre-all-like-that

tolerance 6mo ago

I'd challenge the author to try to make it work anyway. At a glance there's 8 converging paths to take to understand TESCREAL as a whole. It may not be as asymmetric as it looks. Or maybe so. Would be a trip to read anyhow.

bluegatty 6mo ago
'TESCREAL' is a made up boogeyman from an agitator from another political extreme. It's a word to get people to 'rally around' because the negative acts of Theil etc are just not easily defined or incorporated and therefore might not resonate very well. TESCREAL is like 'Rothschild', a nebulous 'stand in term' for what might be some very concerning actions, but which is nevertheless 'not real'. Skip the boogeyman and understand the real problems of concentrated power and egos.
- tolerance 6mo ago
  > Skip the boogeyman and understand the real problems of concentrated power and egos. Where would you start.
  - bluegatty 6mo ago
    The Pharaohs, Mesopotamian Kings, Homer, Caesar + all of Empire era Rome, Genghis Khan, Crusades, all of Chinese History, Feudal Europe, Napoleon, etc. etc.. Or contemporary famous people. Michael Jackson. Donald Trump. The entire Epstein Saga. It's the oldest story. Just study powerful people, they're all wonky. Powerful people are not 'checked' by those around them - they are rule setters, not rule takers. Also - they have enablers to make them extra crazy. There's like an 'inflection point' along the the path to power where the crazy really starts to take off. It's why Warren Buffer, Bill Gates are generally pretty good men. They're constantly looking right into the Eye of Sauron yet they remain relatively normal. They probably have normal people around them, and Buffet's lifestyle is down to Earth, just the numbers are big.
    - cindyllm 6mo ago

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]