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> I had a dev with supposedly 3 years experience and a degree in software who wouldn't have been able to write fizzbuzz without AI. If you remove the "without

by Retr0id 6mo ago

> I had a dev with supposedly 3 years experience and a degree in software who wouldn't have been able to write fizzbuzz without AI. If you remove the "without AI" and the end, I've been hearing similar anecdotes about fizzbuzz for years (isn't the whole point of fizzbuzz to filter out those candidates?)

Gigachad 6mo ago
While this is true, it seems undeniable that if you use AI to do everything for you, you will never learn the skills. I'm seeing a massive amount of developers submitting stuff for review and admitting they have no idea how it works and they just generated it.
raincole 6mo ago
Because "the next generation is ruined" is always a popular sentiment. It has been with us for at least two thousand years, and it surely won't go away in our lifetime. When this AI era's devs grow older they'll complain the newer generation can't even vide code too.
- brookst 6mo ago
  I remember when everyone bemoaned the kids not knowing assembly language. How can anyone understand software if you don’t know assembly? “Kids these days don’t work as hard / know as much / value the important things” is as tired as it is universal.
  - jkubicek 6mo ago
    OK sure, but back when old heads were complaining about the kids not knowing assembly, those same kids knew C or Fortran or something. In 2026, if you call yourself a developer and can't solve FizzBuzz without help, it's hard to argue that you know anything useful at all.
    - brookst 6mo ago
      Do modern languages and compilers count as “help”? Because I could probably do fizzbuzz in x86 assembly, but it would take a while to page that back in, and I suspect most people who call themselves developers today simply could not do it without help.
      - thaumasiotes 6mo ago
        > I could probably do fizzbuzz in x86 assembly How? Fizzbuzz requires you to produce output; that's not functionality that CPU instructions provide. You can call into existing functionality that handles it for you, but at that point what are you objecting to about the 'modern language'?
        rightbyte 6mo ago
        You'd just call printf from assembly by knowing the ABI by heart.
        brookst 6mo ago
        Well I could certainly assemble the string buffer. And if I can run dosbox, I can output to the screen buffer at 0xB800. I’m not objecting to modern languages, I’m just saying that using them fails the “can write fizzbuzz with no help” test to only a slightly lesser degree than using AI tools. They’re a complex compile- and runtime environment that most developers don’t truly understand.
  - unethical_ban 6mo ago
    The time may come when we can treat regular programming as a lower layer niche field the way we treat assembly today. I don't think we're close to that time yet. Just like as a kid I was told to prove my work by hand even if I could do it in my head, and just like we learned how to do calculus without a calculator and then learned how to use the calculator to get the same result, I think we still need the software field to learn programming concepts independent of the use of AI to create code. I don't think you can be a good "prompt engineer" for solid software in 2026 if you don't understand programming concepts and software architecture and flow.
    - brookst 6mo ago
      I generally agree, but it’s just a matter of time, and even today people with domain expertise in other areas (accounting, weather, etc) are producing adequate tools using nothing but prompt engineering. Many caveats of course, but I still think 90% of the distaste for mere prompt engineers comes from “kids these days; my unique knowledge is irreplaceable and they don’t even value it” thing.
      - rrvsh 6mo ago
        Adequate for what/who? I can 3d print and cobble together a lock for my bedroom door but I would never be able to work as an engineer producing real locks.
  - tpm 6mo ago
    > How can anyone understand software if you don’t know assembly? I'm genuinely curious how someone who never wrote a program in assembly, or debugged a program machine instruction by machine instruction, can really understand how software works. My working hypothesis is most of them don't and actually it's fine because they don't need it.
    - marshray 6mo ago
      "Assembly" is just another virtual machine instruction format sitting atop another, mildly better-hidden, pile of abstractions.
      - tpm 6mo ago
        Depending on the particular processor.
- delfinom 6mo ago
  ....Or you know it's actually true some of the times. Standardized test scores have bombed hard across the US in the last decade due to smartphones being wildly present in schools without control. Kids brains are legitimately rotted by a machines running software maximized to destroy the attention centers of their brains for life. AI is just the icing on the cake. These kids are so cooked with developmentally stunted brains that they are forced to use AI as a crutch to function.
GrinningFool 6mo ago
Some percentage of developers before AI were unable to code fizzbuzz. Some significantly higher percentage of them are not able to do so now. Saying there have always been bad developers doesn't change that there's a higher ratio of them now. No stats to back this up. Just interviews I've done recently and historically.

by Retr0id 6mo ago

Gigachad 6mo ago

While this is true, it seems undeniable that if you use AI to do everything for you, you will never learn the skills. I'm seeing a massive amount of developers submitting stuff for review and admitting they have no idea how it works and they just generated it.

raincole 6mo ago

Because "the next generation is ruined" is always a popular sentiment. It has been with us for at least two thousand years, and it surely won't go away in our lifetime. When this AI era's devs grow older they'll complain the newer generation can't even vide code too.

brookst 6mo ago
I remember when everyone bemoaned the kids not knowing assembly language. How can anyone understand software if you don’t know assembly? “Kids these days don’t work as hard / know as much / value the important things” is as tired as it is universal.
- jkubicek 6mo ago
  OK sure, but back when old heads were complaining about the kids not knowing assembly, those same kids knew C or Fortran or something. In 2026, if you call yourself a developer and can't solve FizzBuzz without help, it's hard to argue that you know anything useful at all.
  - brookst 6mo ago
    Do modern languages and compilers count as “help”? Because I could probably do fizzbuzz in x86 assembly, but it would take a while to page that back in, and I suspect most people who call themselves developers today simply could not do it without help.
    - thaumasiotes 6mo ago
      > I could probably do fizzbuzz in x86 assembly How? Fizzbuzz requires you to produce output; that's not functionality that CPU instructions provide. You can call into existing functionality that handles it for you, but at that point what are you objecting to about the 'modern language'?
      - rightbyte 6mo ago
        You'd just call printf from assembly by knowing the ABI by heart.
      - brookst 6mo ago
        Well I could certainly assemble the string buffer. And if I can run dosbox, I can output to the screen buffer at 0xB800. I’m not objecting to modern languages, I’m just saying that using them fails the “can write fizzbuzz with no help” test to only a slightly lesser degree than using AI tools. They’re a complex compile- and runtime environment that most developers don’t truly understand.
- unethical_ban 6mo ago
  The time may come when we can treat regular programming as a lower layer niche field the way we treat assembly today. I don't think we're close to that time yet. Just like as a kid I was told to prove my work by hand even if I could do it in my head, and just like we learned how to do calculus without a calculator and then learned how to use the calculator to get the same result, I think we still need the software field to learn programming concepts independent of the use of AI to create code. I don't think you can be a good "prompt engineer" for solid software in 2026 if you don't understand programming concepts and software architecture and flow.
  - brookst 6mo ago
    I generally agree, but it’s just a matter of time, and even today people with domain expertise in other areas (accounting, weather, etc) are producing adequate tools using nothing but prompt engineering. Many caveats of course, but I still think 90% of the distaste for mere prompt engineers comes from “kids these days; my unique knowledge is irreplaceable and they don’t even value it” thing.
    - rrvsh 6mo ago
      Adequate for what/who? I can 3d print and cobble together a lock for my bedroom door but I would never be able to work as an engineer producing real locks.
- tpm 6mo ago
  > How can anyone understand software if you don’t know assembly? I'm genuinely curious how someone who never wrote a program in assembly, or debugged a program machine instruction by machine instruction, can really understand how software works. My working hypothesis is most of them don't and actually it's fine because they don't need it.
  - marshray 6mo ago
    "Assembly" is just another virtual machine instruction format sitting atop another, mildly better-hidden, pile of abstractions.
    - tpm 6mo ago
      Depending on the particular processor.
delfinom 6mo ago
....Or you know it's actually true some of the times. Standardized test scores have bombed hard across the US in the last decade due to smartphones being wildly present in schools without control. Kids brains are legitimately rotted by a machines running software maximized to destroy the attention centers of their brains for life. AI is just the icing on the cake. These kids are so cooked with developmentally stunted brains that they are forced to use AI as a crutch to function.

GrinningFool 6mo ago

Some percentage of developers before AI were unable to code fizzbuzz. Some significantly higher percentage of them are not able to do so now. Saying there have always been bad developers doesn't change that there's a higher ratio of them now. No stats to back this up. Just interviews I've done recently and historically.