3 ms·

Bragging about token usage is like bragging about LoC written.

andai 5mo ago
Obligatory: Negative 2000 Lines of Code https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44381252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44381252
- syntheticnature 5mo ago
  Versus my sibling comment to yours, I actually sent that to some internal folks after the bit about AI+total lines committed was said.
  - dijksterhuis 5mo ago
    was there any kind of response or reaction to that? it’s something i would have done and probably wouldn’t have gone well. xD
    - syntheticnature 5mo ago
      I didn't send it very high up the chain (and was looking for a job at the time anyhow) but mostly got back snickers from peers and an "I know, but this is a directive from above"
  - s1ngular1ties 5mo ago
    I’m surprised that lines removed isn’t something your bosses at the time weren’t also advocating for, TBH. I don’t blame you for looking around.
- jimbokun 5mo ago
  Timeless classic.
syntheticnature 5mo ago
When I was at Amazon last year, the bragging (from the AI poo-bah in my section of Amazon, note) about AI included "look at the total line count of commits from the heaviest AI users!" So if AI screws something up and re-writes it and then screws it up again, needing another re-write, that counted as more positive than if it was done correctly, and simply, the first time.
- jimbokun 5mo ago
  This is like when the Pointy Haired Boss offers a bounty for fixing bugs and Wally pumps his fist and says “I’m gonna go code myself a Porsche!”
  - iugtmkbdfil834 5mo ago
    It is almost as if Dilbert was a documentary.
zeroonetwothree 5mo ago
It’s honestly 10x worse than LOC. At least in the human era LOC had correlation to shipping features. It’s more like bragging about compiler cycles spent.
- 0xy 5mo ago
  I don't know where you're working but LLM enhanced development has skyrocketed our rate of feature development. As an example, a project roadmapped to take 7 months was delivered in only 4.5 because of CC/Codex. I'm confused how anyone could believe it isn't an enhancer, unless they have refused to use any of the technologies.
  - morkalork 5mo ago
    You're measuring success with time to delivery, that's a reasonable metric. Same with volume of features shipped. Also good. LoC or tokens burned... not so much.
  - s1ngular1ties 5mo ago
    Yeah I’ve experienced much the same as you. Like it’s overwhelmingly clear from everything it’s enabled for us that we’re going far, far faster than we ever have, and the guardrails we have in play have helped guard the architecture and make it even harder to commit a bad PR. Sometimes in reading these comments I’m left wondering what sorts of experiences people are having elsewhere that’s left them this soured on its usage in business.
    - ryandrake 5mo ago
      Everyone is replying but nobody is reading. Moving faster doesn’t necessarily mean delivering business value faster. You may be moving faster in the wrong direction. More code doesn’t necessarily mean delivering more business value. You’re piling on debt and if that debt is growing faster than the value of the code, you’re actually losing. And even if you somehow are delivering more, better code, faster, and without building technical debt: writing code is somewhere around 1-5% of the actual work and time that it takes to deliver a software product. At least in all the places I’ve ever worked. You are optimizing the wrong thing.

andai 5mo ago

Obligatory: Negative 2000 Lines of Code https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44381252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44381252

syntheticnature 5mo ago
Versus my sibling comment to yours, I actually sent that to some internal folks after the bit about AI+total lines committed was said.
- dijksterhuis 5mo ago
  was there any kind of response or reaction to that? it’s something i would have done and probably wouldn’t have gone well. xD
  - syntheticnature 5mo ago
    I didn't send it very high up the chain (and was looking for a job at the time anyhow) but mostly got back snickers from peers and an "I know, but this is a directive from above"
- s1ngular1ties 5mo ago
  I’m surprised that lines removed isn’t something your bosses at the time weren’t also advocating for, TBH. I don’t blame you for looking around.
jimbokun 5mo ago
Timeless classic.

syntheticnature 5mo ago

When I was at Amazon last year, the bragging (from the AI poo-bah in my section of Amazon, note) about AI included "look at the total line count of commits from the heaviest AI users!" So if AI screws something up and re-writes it and then screws it up again, needing another re-write, that counted as more positive than if it was done correctly, and simply, the first time.

jimbokun 5mo ago
This is like when the Pointy Haired Boss offers a bounty for fixing bugs and Wally pumps his fist and says “I’m gonna go code myself a Porsche!”
- iugtmkbdfil834 5mo ago
  It is almost as if Dilbert was a documentary.

zeroonetwothree 5mo ago

It’s honestly 10x worse than LOC. At least in the human era LOC had correlation to shipping features. It’s more like bragging about compiler cycles spent.

0xy 5mo ago
I don't know where you're working but LLM enhanced development has skyrocketed our rate of feature development. As an example, a project roadmapped to take 7 months was delivered in only 4.5 because of CC/Codex. I'm confused how anyone could believe it isn't an enhancer, unless they have refused to use any of the technologies.
- morkalork 5mo ago
  You're measuring success with time to delivery, that's a reasonable metric. Same with volume of features shipped. Also good. LoC or tokens burned... not so much.
- s1ngular1ties 5mo ago
  Yeah I’ve experienced much the same as you. Like it’s overwhelmingly clear from everything it’s enabled for us that we’re going far, far faster than we ever have, and the guardrails we have in play have helped guard the architecture and make it even harder to commit a bad PR. Sometimes in reading these comments I’m left wondering what sorts of experiences people are having elsewhere that’s left them this soured on its usage in business.
  - ryandrake 5mo ago
    Everyone is replying but nobody is reading. Moving faster doesn’t necessarily mean delivering business value faster. You may be moving faster in the wrong direction. More code doesn’t necessarily mean delivering more business value. You’re piling on debt and if that debt is growing faster than the value of the code, you’re actually losing. And even if you somehow are delivering more, better code, faster, and without building technical debt: writing code is somewhere around 1-5% of the actual work and time that it takes to deliver a software product. At least in all the places I’ve ever worked. You are optimizing the wrong thing.