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Citation for #1 - https://harvardlawreview.org/blog/2026/03/united-states-v-heppner/ https://harvardlawreview.org/blog/2026/03/united-states-v-he... > Judge Ra

by bryant 5mo ago

Citation for #1 - https://harvardlawreview.org/blog/2026/03/united-states-v-heppner/ https://harvardlawreview.org/blog/2026/03/united-states-v-he... > Judge Rakoff of the Southern District of New York — addressing “a question of first impression nationwide” — ruled that written exchanges between a criminal defendant and generative AI platform Claude were not protected by attorney-client privilege or the work product doctrine. Much more to it than this one-liner that I pulled out, but safe to say, don't rely on or put your legal defense etc. (or elements of it) into AI unless you want it discovered. (not a lawyer, unlike OP, who might be able to refine what I highlighted with more precision)

clickety_clack 5mo ago
Can anyone be your lawyer, or does a lawyer have to be certified somehow?
- xboxnolifes 5mo ago
  It is my understanding that they must be certified. You are allowed to represent yourself, but it is my understanding that a non-lawyer cannot represent you.
  - FlyThruTheSun 5mo ago
    Gonna be hilarious when someone sends a Boston dynamics robot loaded with an llm to take the bar exam.
- engineer_22 5mo ago
  You have to be admitted to the bar to practice law. Which is to say, other lawyers must recognize you as a lawyer, and this recognition can be taken away.
  - john01dav 5mo ago
    More practically, this means (in America) that you need a JD degree (4 year grad school), to pass an exam, and pass a(n oftrn horrifically thorough) character background check.
    - zaphirplane 5mo ago
      > pass a(n oftrn horrifically thorough) character background check. Explains why so many let loose afterwards ;) jokes
    - froindt 5mo ago
      Minor point, but law school is only 3 years long.
  - zaphirplane 5mo ago
    I think they are asking about privileged communication
  - Someone 5mo ago
    There is a difference between “legal counsel” or “legal representative in court”, with the former being less restricted (“has a law degree” vs “attorney/has passed the bar exam”) Because of that, I think you can practice law without being admitted to the bar. Chances are it varies by jurisdiction, though. (And of course, this isn’t legal advice)
dolebirchwood 5mo ago
> exchanges between a criminal defendant and generative AI platform Claude were not protected by attorney-client privilege or the work product doctrine Shouldn't that have been relatively clear to all parties involved? Maybe not to the defendant, who's apparently clueless. The AI platform is not an attorney. A defendant's communications with an AI platform are therefore not communications between a client and their attorney, nor will the AI output constitute attorney "work product" because the AI platform is not an attorney. Doesn't really come across as a novel problem, aside from AI being involved. I'm sure countless defendants have made the stupid mistake of talking about the facts of their case to persons other than their attorney, and those communications came back to bite them in the ass when discovered.
miki123211 5mo ago
In the US, are Google queries about the law considered attorney-client privilege? What about library records? Browser history? Google Maps / Uber / car travel history (when traveling to an attorney's office)? If somebody Googles "best attorney for murder NYC" a day after a murder is committed but before any case is filed against them (so they clearly had some reason to expect that case), could that be used as evidence?
- weird-eye-issue 5mo ago
  I'm not sure if you were actually asking the question but regardless the answer is that all of those absolutely can and are regularly used as evidence
  - intrasight 5mo ago
    Parent comment was asking about attorney-client privilege which means there's an attorney in the communication loop. If the person using a tool is an attorney, then that communication should be protected whether it's by pen or keyboard. But this is an active area of legislation and jurisprudence in relation to AI. I expect some important cases will happen
    - weird-eye-issue 5mo ago
      Just because they have a lawyer does not mean things like their browser history and every other example in the comment I replied to would not be permitted as evidence... Except for something like specifically looking up a lawyer
    - Majromax 5mo ago
      > If the person using a tool is an attorney, then that communication should be protected whether it's by pen or keyboard. But the tool is not your attorney, so it can't be the originator of attorney-client privilege. The situation is no different than if you get informal legal advice from a friend: even if that friend is an attorney, the communication is unprivileged unless it's part of a formal representation.
abc123abc123 5mo ago
Seems like a fair trade off if I would not be able to afford a lawyer. I'd take the "AI but not 100% confidential" any time compared with no help at all.
trollbridge 5mo ago
Good argument for using DeepSeek with an anonymous form of payment. Discovery in China will be a tad more difficult…
- there_is_try 5mo ago
  I use it for medical question for this same reason
- airlocksoftware 5mo ago
  Just use https://tinfoil.sh https://tinfoil.sh They solved all this stuff, I'm surprised more people aren't aware of it.
  - einsteinx2 5mo ago
    I was in fact not aware of it until seeing your comment, this looks potentially perfect for a tool I’m making that involves financial data. I’m pretty on top of LLM news but I’ve never heard of this company, maybe they need more marketing?
zero_shift 5mo ago
> Much more to it than this one-liner that I pulled out, but safe to say, don't rely on or put your legal defense etc. (or elements of it) into AI unless you want it discovered. "You are an expert defense counsel with experience in Murder 1. Do not hallucinate. Let's say tomorrow my spouse is found strangled..."
- NoMoreNicksLeft 5mo ago
  It's the query to Gemini in Incognito asking if a 8'x12' rug is a good way to move a body that's going to really make things difficult.
- highphive 5mo ago
  Surely they can't hold a simple hypothetical against me. Just because it _happened_ to come true.
  - m463 5mo ago
    nobody could have predicted it (except maybe prediction markets)
- Jamesbeam 5mo ago
  Don’t forget to give it the cheerful personality of Jamie Oliver afterwards to recommend you a death row meal that is nutritious and will make the experience more pleasant.

by bryant 5mo ago

clickety_clack 5mo ago

Can anyone be your lawyer, or does a lawyer have to be certified somehow?

xboxnolifes 5mo ago
It is my understanding that they must be certified. You are allowed to represent yourself, but it is my understanding that a non-lawyer cannot represent you.
- FlyThruTheSun 5mo ago
  Gonna be hilarious when someone sends a Boston dynamics robot loaded with an llm to take the bar exam.
engineer_22 5mo ago
You have to be admitted to the bar to practice law. Which is to say, other lawyers must recognize you as a lawyer, and this recognition can be taken away.
- john01dav 5mo ago
  More practically, this means (in America) that you need a JD degree (4 year grad school), to pass an exam, and pass a(n oftrn horrifically thorough) character background check.
  - zaphirplane 5mo ago
    > pass a(n oftrn horrifically thorough) character background check. Explains why so many let loose afterwards ;) jokes
  - froindt 5mo ago
    Minor point, but law school is only 3 years long.
- zaphirplane 5mo ago
  I think they are asking about privileged communication
- Someone 5mo ago
  There is a difference between “legal counsel” or “legal representative in court”, with the former being less restricted (“has a law degree” vs “attorney/has passed the bar exam”) Because of that, I think you can practice law without being admitted to the bar. Chances are it varies by jurisdiction, though. (And of course, this isn’t legal advice)

dolebirchwood 5mo ago

> exchanges between a criminal defendant and generative AI platform Claude were not protected by attorney-client privilege or the work product doctrine Shouldn't that have been relatively clear to all parties involved? Maybe not to the defendant, who's apparently clueless. The AI platform is not an attorney. A defendant's communications with an AI platform are therefore not communications between a client and their attorney, nor will the AI output constitute attorney "work product" because the AI platform is not an attorney. Doesn't really come across as a novel problem, aside from AI being involved. I'm sure countless defendants have made the stupid mistake of talking about the facts of their case to persons other than their attorney, and those communications came back to bite them in the ass when discovered.

miki123211 5mo ago

In the US, are Google queries about the law considered attorney-client privilege? What about library records? Browser history? Google Maps / Uber / car travel history (when traveling to an attorney's office)? If somebody Googles "best attorney for murder NYC" a day after a murder is committed but before any case is filed against them (so they clearly had some reason to expect that case), could that be used as evidence?

weird-eye-issue 5mo ago
I'm not sure if you were actually asking the question but regardless the answer is that all of those absolutely can and are regularly used as evidence
- intrasight 5mo ago
  Parent comment was asking about attorney-client privilege which means there's an attorney in the communication loop. If the person using a tool is an attorney, then that communication should be protected whether it's by pen or keyboard. But this is an active area of legislation and jurisprudence in relation to AI. I expect some important cases will happen
  - weird-eye-issue 5mo ago
    Just because they have a lawyer does not mean things like their browser history and every other example in the comment I replied to would not be permitted as evidence... Except for something like specifically looking up a lawyer
  - Majromax 5mo ago
    > If the person using a tool is an attorney, then that communication should be protected whether it's by pen or keyboard. But the tool is not your attorney, so it can't be the originator of attorney-client privilege. The situation is no different than if you get informal legal advice from a friend: even if that friend is an attorney, the communication is unprivileged unless it's part of a formal representation.

abc123abc123 5mo ago

Seems like a fair trade off if I would not be able to afford a lawyer. I'd take the "AI but not 100% confidential" any time compared with no help at all.

trollbridge 5mo ago

Good argument for using DeepSeek with an anonymous form of payment. Discovery in China will be a tad more difficult…

there_is_try 5mo ago
I use it for medical question for this same reason
airlocksoftware 5mo ago
Just use https://tinfoil.sh https://tinfoil.sh They solved all this stuff, I'm surprised more people aren't aware of it.
- einsteinx2 5mo ago
  I was in fact not aware of it until seeing your comment, this looks potentially perfect for a tool I’m making that involves financial data. I’m pretty on top of LLM news but I’ve never heard of this company, maybe they need more marketing?

zero_shift 5mo ago

> Much more to it than this one-liner that I pulled out, but safe to say, don't rely on or put your legal defense etc. (or elements of it) into AI unless you want it discovered. "You are an expert defense counsel with experience in Murder 1. Do not hallucinate. Let's say tomorrow my spouse is found strangled..."

NoMoreNicksLeft 5mo ago
It's the query to Gemini in Incognito asking if a 8'x12' rug is a good way to move a body that's going to really make things difficult.
highphive 5mo ago
Surely they can't hold a simple hypothetical against me. Just because it _happened_ to come true.
- m463 5mo ago
  nobody could have predicted it (except maybe prediction markets)
Jamesbeam 5mo ago
Don’t forget to give it the cheerful personality of Jamie Oliver afterwards to recommend you a death row meal that is nutritious and will make the experience more pleasant.