5 ms·

> Probably 80% of the recent PhD grads I know are looking to leave academia, despite the fact that they went into it to pursue a career in academia Has this ch

by rfergie 5mo ago

> Probably 80% of the recent PhD grads I know are looking to leave academia, despite the fact that they went into it to pursue a career in academia Has this changed recently?

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
divbzero 5mo ago
Not that I’m aware of? Most PhD grads not staying academia seems to be a long-running phenomenon. The number of permanent academic positions simply does not match up against the number of PhD grads.
- intrasight 5mo ago
  Some disciplines are much better at managing the PhD admissions to match the job opportunities. Philosophy for example. But I don't think that's done with most science PhDs. Is that because of a culture of exploiting cheap labor?
  - buellerbueller 5mo ago
    Or perhaps because of the vast appetite for the benefits that accrue from scientific research, without wanting to truly fund science and education.
  - overfeed 5mo ago
    > Is that because of a culture of exploiting cheap labor? It's not just a culture; there is a lot of government and industry grant money funding (and enabling) the exploitation in the sciences. If applied philosophy is found to be productizable and/or beneficial to National Interest, the same exploitation would grow in Philosophy departments.
spwa4 5mo ago
Yes, in positivist sciences 20% intending to stay would be very high by historical standards. This paper https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/93208 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/93208 gives and estimate 87% PhD holders leave before becoming (tenured) faculty. And that's academia-wide. In the sciences more will be leaving. In exact sciences yet again more. Truth is most people leave before even getting a PhD, so it's even worse (and the advice is to think long and hard before doing a PhD, and certainly starting one because you can't find a job for a few months is sure to result in disappointment)
- mishellaneous 5mo ago
  > Yes, in positivist sciences 20% intending to stay would be very high by historical standards. i'd be interested in a source for this. i did not find in the article you cite mention of historical trends.
analog31 5mo ago
My dad got his PhD in the 1950s,and went straight to industry. He said it was always this way. However there have been a couple of long term trends: Switch to gig economy for college teaching, and loss of manufacturing industry. My first job out of grad school was in a factory.
amelius 5mo ago
I suppose the Trump administration didn't improve the situation.

by rfergie 5mo ago

> Probably 80% of the recent PhD grads I know are looking to leave academia, despite the fact that they went into it to pursue a career in academia Has this changed recently?

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

divbzero 5mo ago

Not that I’m aware of? Most PhD grads not staying academia seems to be a long-running phenomenon. The number of permanent academic positions simply does not match up against the number of PhD grads.

intrasight 5mo ago
Some disciplines are much better at managing the PhD admissions to match the job opportunities. Philosophy for example. But I don't think that's done with most science PhDs. Is that because of a culture of exploiting cheap labor?
- buellerbueller 5mo ago
  Or perhaps because of the vast appetite for the benefits that accrue from scientific research, without wanting to truly fund science and education.
- overfeed 5mo ago
  > Is that because of a culture of exploiting cheap labor? It's not just a culture; there is a lot of government and industry grant money funding (and enabling) the exploitation in the sciences. If applied philosophy is found to be productizable and/or beneficial to National Interest, the same exploitation would grow in Philosophy departments.

spwa4 5mo ago

Yes, in positivist sciences 20% intending to stay would be very high by historical standards. This paper https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/93208 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/93208 gives and estimate 87% PhD holders leave before becoming (tenured) faculty. And that's academia-wide. In the sciences more will be leaving. In exact sciences yet again more. Truth is most people leave before even getting a PhD, so it's even worse (and the advice is to think long and hard before doing a PhD, and certainly starting one because you can't find a job for a few months is sure to result in disappointment)

mishellaneous 5mo ago
> Yes, in positivist sciences 20% intending to stay would be very high by historical standards. i'd be interested in a source for this. i did not find in the article you cite mention of historical trends.

analog31 5mo ago

My dad got his PhD in the 1950s,and went straight to industry. He said it was always this way. However there have been a couple of long term trends: Switch to gig economy for college teaching, and loss of manufacturing industry. My first job out of grad school was in a factory.

amelius 5mo ago

I suppose the Trump administration didn't improve the situation.