3 ms·

Maybe it’s time to split the country? We are so polarized with very different visions about the future and what is needed to reach and increase prosperity. Let

Maybe it’s time to split the country? We are so polarized with very different visions about the future and what is needed to reach and increase prosperity. Let Mississippi be Mississippi with Texas and Florida, let California find its own way with New York and Washington. Democracy is fine, but we are just too divided and either side thinks the other side is dragging all of us down, and refuse to believe it’s because of their own policies.

r2_pilot 6mo ago
Don't consign us here in Mississippi, voting in every election, to not be represented in a democratic society. It's hard enough living here without getting dogpiled by external people who never visit and think that just because our "representatives" are a certain way that everyone here is like them, instead of the messier reality that power structures here are misaligned with the actual population's collective will.
- seanmcdirmid 6mo ago
  I lived in Texas, Mississippi, Florida before, so I’m unsure what you mean by not visiting. I didn’t list a state that I hadn’t lived in for at least 3 months. Unfortunately that was 5 years in Mississippi. Regardless what would you have us do? More autonomy for states? You can’t go out alone, and we have a nice red-blue state now to base a division on.
  - greenie_beans 6mo ago
    no, they are saying that by discarding mississippi, you are ignoring like 45%+ of the state that didn't vote for whatever politician you hate. and also you are ignoring the centuries of disenfranchisement that prevents more people from voting against whatever politician you hate. it's not a monolith. mississsippi is the blackest state in the union yet coastal liberals who are supposedly anti-racist are quick to throw out the state.
    - cucumber3732842 6mo ago
      So? How's that any different than everyone in Buffalo just having to bend over and take it because NYC and Albany want to do spreadsheets and services instead of factories? No state is a monolith.
      - magicalist 6mo ago
        That's exactly the point. It makes no sense to say maybe if New York went off and was its own country it'll finally not be so divided.
        cucumber3732842 6mo ago
        I mean it'd be less divided insofar as the minority would be more thoroughly subjugated by the state. No pesky federal government getting in the way. Though that's probably not a good thing.
    - seanmcdirmid 6mo ago
      Having actually lived in Mississippi, I’ve seen the disenfranchisement first hand. But what can we do? We can’t fix Mississippi, they will have to want to fix themselves, so why not let them explore more fully the consequences of their own actions? Mississippi thinks California is keeping them down, then without California they would have to start blaming themselves more.
      - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
        > then without California they would have to start blaming themselves more Because blaming a foreign country for your woes just doesn't happen.
        seanmcdirmid 6mo ago
        You know, we can blame China (another country I've lived in) all we want for our problems, and China definitely blames the US for a lot of its problems...but at the end of the day, the Chinese and the USA don't really have to care what the others think about them.
- AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
  If there’s a “collective will” then why isn’t the population forcing its collective will on those power structures?
  - greenie_beans 6mo ago
    as if the civil rights movement didn't have very significant events take place in mississippi https://bookshop.org/p/books/local-people-the-struggle-for-civil-rights-in-mississippi-professor-emeritus-john-dittmer/8c29e1fdde5a8cd5?ean=9780252065071&next=t https://bookshop.org/p/books/local-people-the-struggle-for-c...
    - AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
      Right so what’s stopping people from doing it now?
      - greenie_beans 6mo ago
        i guess you haven't been seeing the news of all the southerners fighting the redistricting efforts after they gutted the VRA
        AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
        You mean Southerners like me in Virginia who are actually doing that “fighting” and it’s making absolutely no difference whatsoever is that who you’re talking about? I’m literally 10 toes down on the ground trying to do exactly the thing that everybody says should be happening which is democratizing community development and nobody gives a fucking fuck they will show up when you give them resources but never step up to lead after I’ve started so many goddamn community things but the second I pull back from them to let others lead nobody picks up the slack I’m excruciatingly done with over and over and over trying to help people take care of themselves
        greenie_beans 5mo ago
- armchairhacker 6mo ago
  You can move, trading places with a conservative stuck in a blue state, with assistance because many other people are moving.
cj 6mo ago
> we are just too divided I challenge this. I think the TV media, social media, and politicians like to make us feel like we are very divided because that's what gets "the base" to give a shit. But if you throw away all of the garbage on TV and the garbage online, how divided are we? Really? I think if you strip away the distractions, the people in conservative Florida have a lot more in common with people in liberal NY than one might assume.
ModernMech 6mo ago
It's a tempting thought but play it out. Now you live next to a belligerent fascist theocracy with nukes who likes to invade foreign countries and aspires to control the entire western hemisphere from Canada to Chile. How does that end?
busyant 6mo ago
> Let Mississippi be Mississippi with Texas and Florida, let California find its own way with New York and Washington. These places aren't homogeneous in their political tastes. I live in a northeast blue state, but there are rural pockets that are still heavily MAGA. And I'm sure Mississippi has liberal enclaves. That being said, I don't know what the "solution" to this problem is.
- chasd00 6mo ago
  further, California is a big state. For the concept to work you'd have to split California lengthwise, the Western 1/3 would align politically how the op is assuming but the Eastern 2/3 would not. If the counter argument is majority rule then you're pretty much back to where you started with a divided population and 2 wolves + 1 lamb voting on lunch.
- seanmcdirmid 6mo ago
  There will still be liberals in a new confederacy, and there will still be conservatives in a new union, we are only really talking about changing 50/50 into 60/40 on either side. BUT let's face it, our current equilibrium is not sustainable, this country can't survive another Trump, let alone the current one. Trump is talking about disenfranchising voters in blue states (because we must be cheating or we are illegal immigrants or something), I feel like that if we continue to union with these states, I will just wake up with a knife in my back someday. Democracy works, we just have bad partners right now.
jll29 6mo ago
E pluribus duam?
rexpop 6mo ago
You're confusing neo-feudalist oligarchical propaganda with the will of the people.

r2_pilot 6mo ago

Don't consign us here in Mississippi, voting in every election, to not be represented in a democratic society. It's hard enough living here without getting dogpiled by external people who never visit and think that just because our "representatives" are a certain way that everyone here is like them, instead of the messier reality that power structures here are misaligned with the actual population's collective will.

seanmcdirmid 6mo ago
I lived in Texas, Mississippi, Florida before, so I’m unsure what you mean by not visiting. I didn’t list a state that I hadn’t lived in for at least 3 months. Unfortunately that was 5 years in Mississippi. Regardless what would you have us do? More autonomy for states? You can’t go out alone, and we have a nice red-blue state now to base a division on.
- greenie_beans 6mo ago
  no, they are saying that by discarding mississippi, you are ignoring like 45%+ of the state that didn't vote for whatever politician you hate. and also you are ignoring the centuries of disenfranchisement that prevents more people from voting against whatever politician you hate. it's not a monolith. mississsippi is the blackest state in the union yet coastal liberals who are supposedly anti-racist are quick to throw out the state.
  - cucumber3732842 6mo ago
    So? How's that any different than everyone in Buffalo just having to bend over and take it because NYC and Albany want to do spreadsheets and services instead of factories? No state is a monolith.
    - magicalist 6mo ago
      That's exactly the point. It makes no sense to say maybe if New York went off and was its own country it'll finally not be so divided.
      - cucumber3732842 6mo ago
        I mean it'd be less divided insofar as the minority would be more thoroughly subjugated by the state. No pesky federal government getting in the way. Though that's probably not a good thing.
  - seanmcdirmid 6mo ago
    Having actually lived in Mississippi, I’ve seen the disenfranchisement first hand. But what can we do? We can’t fix Mississippi, they will have to want to fix themselves, so why not let them explore more fully the consequences of their own actions? Mississippi thinks California is keeping them down, then without California they would have to start blaming themselves more.
    - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
      > then without California they would have to start blaming themselves more Because blaming a foreign country for your woes just doesn't happen.
      - seanmcdirmid 6mo ago
        You know, we can blame China (another country I've lived in) all we want for our problems, and China definitely blames the US for a lot of its problems...but at the end of the day, the Chinese and the USA don't really have to care what the others think about them.
AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
If there’s a “collective will” then why isn’t the population forcing its collective will on those power structures?
- greenie_beans 6mo ago
  as if the civil rights movement didn't have very significant events take place in mississippi https://bookshop.org/p/books/local-people-the-struggle-for-civil-rights-in-mississippi-professor-emeritus-john-dittmer/8c29e1fdde5a8cd5?ean=9780252065071&next=t https://bookshop.org/p/books/local-people-the-struggle-for-c...
  - AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
    Right so what’s stopping people from doing it now?
    - greenie_beans 6mo ago
      i guess you haven't been seeing the news of all the southerners fighting the redistricting efforts after they gutted the VRA
      - AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
        You mean Southerners like me in Virginia who are actually doing that “fighting” and it’s making absolutely no difference whatsoever is that who you’re talking about? I’m literally 10 toes down on the ground trying to do exactly the thing that everybody says should be happening which is democratizing community development and nobody gives a fucking fuck they will show up when you give them resources but never step up to lead after I’ve started so many goddamn community things but the second I pull back from them to let others lead nobody picks up the slack I’m excruciatingly done with over and over and over trying to help people take care of themselves
        greenie_beans 5mo ago
armchairhacker 6mo ago
You can move, trading places with a conservative stuck in a blue state, with assistance because many other people are moving.

cj 6mo ago

> we are just too divided I challenge this. I think the TV media, social media, and politicians like to make us feel like we are very divided because that's what gets "the base" to give a shit. But if you throw away all of the garbage on TV and the garbage online, how divided are we? Really? I think if you strip away the distractions, the people in conservative Florida have a lot more in common with people in liberal NY than one might assume.

ModernMech 6mo ago

It's a tempting thought but play it out. Now you live next to a belligerent fascist theocracy with nukes who likes to invade foreign countries and aspires to control the entire western hemisphere from Canada to Chile. How does that end?

busyant 6mo ago

> Let Mississippi be Mississippi with Texas and Florida, let California find its own way with New York and Washington. These places aren't homogeneous in their political tastes. I live in a northeast blue state, but there are rural pockets that are still heavily MAGA. And I'm sure Mississippi has liberal enclaves. That being said, I don't know what the "solution" to this problem is.

chasd00 6mo ago
further, California is a big state. For the concept to work you'd have to split California lengthwise, the Western 1/3 would align politically how the op is assuming but the Eastern 2/3 would not. If the counter argument is majority rule then you're pretty much back to where you started with a divided population and 2 wolves + 1 lamb voting on lunch.
seanmcdirmid 6mo ago
There will still be liberals in a new confederacy, and there will still be conservatives in a new union, we are only really talking about changing 50/50 into 60/40 on either side. BUT let's face it, our current equilibrium is not sustainable, this country can't survive another Trump, let alone the current one. Trump is talking about disenfranchising voters in blue states (because we must be cheating or we are illegal immigrants or something), I feel like that if we continue to union with these states, I will just wake up with a knife in my back someday. Democracy works, we just have bad partners right now.

jll29 6mo ago

E pluribus duam?

rexpop 6mo ago

You're confusing neo-feudalist oligarchical propaganda with the will of the people.