4 ms·

Not at all, the US is still the world leader in research institutions. And I say this as an European, we’re miles behind really. You have to make a lot more fu

Not at all, the US is still the world leader in research institutions. And I say this as an European, we’re miles behind really. You have to make a lot more fuck ups for us to catch you.

chvid 5mo ago
I think the highest ranked technical universities by the end of this decade will be Chinese. Things are accelerating more than I expected.
- mcmcmc 5mo ago
  Some people would argue they’ve already taken the lead
- electrondood 5mo ago
  Making America great again, again.
- malshe 5mo ago
  I've my doubts. Chinese researchers are publishing a lot but their papers are getting retracted at even higher rate. Currently, they account for 50% of all retractions across the publishers. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2602.19197v1 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2602.19197v1
  - ggoo 5mo ago
    One of the best ways to get better at something difficult is to do it a lot.
    - malshe 5mo ago
      I guess they will be great at retractions at this rate
- geodel 5mo ago
  And there is no clamor Chinese green card either in politicians in China for students coming from other countries or in people outside coming to China. And if China will be having highest ranking technical universities, it means immigration is not a necessity for technical excellence or ranking as many keep alluding to.
  - DaSHacka 5mo ago
    Exactly this, it's hilarious seeing the reasoning ITT and elsewhere that we need unlimited foreign immigration to possibly keep stride with China, a country with extremely strict immigration opportunities and as a result, much better cultural cohesion. I actually agree with them that China is absolutely on track to surpass us, though the funny part is they never stopped to think about why that might be, nor what it will mean for Western countries and immigration going forward. The writing is really on the wall for the death of "a country is an economic zone migrants should be free to enter and leave at will" line of thinking, but regaining the cohesion we once had and the previous pressure for migrants to actually assimilate rather than just forming closed satellite communities may take longer still.
mrhottakes 5mo ago
That's exactly what's happening.
j_maffe 5mo ago
Yes but the trajectory is in free fall. With rise of research in China we'll have a more even playing field.
pavel_lishin 5mo ago
Give us time.
schnitzelstoat 5mo ago
Yeah, in Europe we simply don't have the money. And with an aging population and stagnant/declining productivity that seems unlikely to improve in the future. If anyone is going to overtake the US, it will be China.
- thenthenthen 5mo ago
  Sounds same as China? No money, aging population? Not sure how the Chinese Universities are doing, but the international ones seem struggling (they pay foreign faculty 5–10x more, by law). Not so sure about the next 5 years. Could be messy.
- KerrAvon 5mo ago
  Why is this even an "if" at this point? China's EV industry has overtaken the US's. They are at worst only slightly behind in AI -- all of the best large open weight LLMs are from Chinese companies, and there are more major Chinese LLMs chasing SOTA than western SOTA LLMs. Literally everything the second Trump administration has done in office has made the Chinese much stronger in every possible way, and the USA much weaker. The USA isn't completely doomed if we can get past the current madness somehow. However, while I don't know what post-Trump America looks like, the USA has permanently ceded political and technical leadership. Trump has sealed the US's fate.
- graemep 5mo ago
  Not investing well in education, health and infrastructure is one of the causes of the decline of Europe, and stagnant productivity. Its not even so much as money not being spent, as money being spent badly. In the UK money is wasted on having too many universities and too many undergraduates. There are badly thought out commercial research subsidies. Schools are driven my metrics in a large scale proof of Goodheart's (Campbell's ?) law.
rvz 5mo ago
Most of Europe is behind because the money there has dried up. (Except for Norway) > You have to make a lot more fuck ups for us to catch you. The main issue is the 40TN debt that the US has which will soon matter. But the expected action that they will do is to continue printing and debasing the US dollar until they cannot.
ridiculous_leke 5mo ago
Me crying as a South Asian
shaky-carrousel 5mo ago
The US is the world leader in lists compiled by who? I'm pretty sure China is the world leader in lists compiled by them.
aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
> And I say this as an European, we’re miles behind really. I am not so sure about this. Many universities in Europe are still really good (even if they market their research achievements much less aggressively than US-American universities). The problem that exists in many European countries is that companies or startups have difficulties commercializing these research achievements.
chanux 5mo ago
FWIW: https://theconversation.com/china-surpasses-us-in-research-spending-the-consequences-extend-far-beyond-scientific-ranking-and-clout-280543 https://theconversation.com/china-surpasses-us-in-research-s...
danaw 5mo ago
americans right now: "hold my beer"

Not at all, the US is still the world leader in research institutions. And I say this as an European, we’re miles behind really. You have to make a lot more fuck ups for us to catch you.

chvid 5mo ago

I think the highest ranked technical universities by the end of this decade will be Chinese. Things are accelerating more than I expected.

mcmcmc 5mo ago
Some people would argue they’ve already taken the lead
electrondood 5mo ago
Making America great again, again.
malshe 5mo ago
I've my doubts. Chinese researchers are publishing a lot but their papers are getting retracted at even higher rate. Currently, they account for 50% of all retractions across the publishers. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2602.19197v1 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2602.19197v1
- ggoo 5mo ago
  One of the best ways to get better at something difficult is to do it a lot.
  - malshe 5mo ago
    I guess they will be great at retractions at this rate
geodel 5mo ago
And there is no clamor Chinese green card either in politicians in China for students coming from other countries or in people outside coming to China. And if China will be having highest ranking technical universities, it means immigration is not a necessity for technical excellence or ranking as many keep alluding to.
- DaSHacka 5mo ago
  Exactly this, it's hilarious seeing the reasoning ITT and elsewhere that we need unlimited foreign immigration to possibly keep stride with China, a country with extremely strict immigration opportunities and as a result, much better cultural cohesion. I actually agree with them that China is absolutely on track to surpass us, though the funny part is they never stopped to think about why that might be, nor what it will mean for Western countries and immigration going forward. The writing is really on the wall for the death of "a country is an economic zone migrants should be free to enter and leave at will" line of thinking, but regaining the cohesion we once had and the previous pressure for migrants to actually assimilate rather than just forming closed satellite communities may take longer still.

mrhottakes 5mo ago

That's exactly what's happening.

j_maffe 5mo ago

Yes but the trajectory is in free fall. With rise of research in China we'll have a more even playing field.

pavel_lishin 5mo ago

Give us time.

schnitzelstoat 5mo ago

Yeah, in Europe we simply don't have the money. And with an aging population and stagnant/declining productivity that seems unlikely to improve in the future. If anyone is going to overtake the US, it will be China.

thenthenthen 5mo ago
Sounds same as China? No money, aging population? Not sure how the Chinese Universities are doing, but the international ones seem struggling (they pay foreign faculty 5–10x more, by law). Not so sure about the next 5 years. Could be messy.
KerrAvon 5mo ago
Why is this even an "if" at this point? China's EV industry has overtaken the US's. They are at worst only slightly behind in AI -- all of the best large open weight LLMs are from Chinese companies, and there are more major Chinese LLMs chasing SOTA than western SOTA LLMs. Literally everything the second Trump administration has done in office has made the Chinese much stronger in every possible way, and the USA much weaker. The USA isn't completely doomed if we can get past the current madness somehow. However, while I don't know what post-Trump America looks like, the USA has permanently ceded political and technical leadership. Trump has sealed the US's fate.
graemep 5mo ago
Not investing well in education, health and infrastructure is one of the causes of the decline of Europe, and stagnant productivity. Its not even so much as money not being spent, as money being spent badly. In the UK money is wasted on having too many universities and too many undergraduates. There are badly thought out commercial research subsidies. Schools are driven my metrics in a large scale proof of Goodheart's (Campbell's ?) law.

rvz 5mo ago

Most of Europe is behind because the money there has dried up. (Except for Norway) > You have to make a lot more fuck ups for us to catch you. The main issue is the 40TN debt that the US has which will soon matter. But the expected action that they will do is to continue printing and debasing the US dollar until they cannot.

ridiculous_leke 5mo ago

Me crying as a South Asian

shaky-carrousel 5mo ago

The US is the world leader in lists compiled by who? I'm pretty sure China is the world leader in lists compiled by them.

aleph_minus_one 5mo ago

> And I say this as an European, we’re miles behind really. I am not so sure about this. Many universities in Europe are still really good (even if they market their research achievements much less aggressively than US-American universities). The problem that exists in many European countries is that companies or startups have difficulties commercializing these research achievements.

chanux 5mo ago

FWIW: https://theconversation.com/china-surpasses-us-in-research-spending-the-consequences-extend-far-beyond-scientific-ranking-and-clout-280543 https://theconversation.com/china-surpasses-us-in-research-s...

danaw 5mo ago

americans right now: "hold my beer"