4 ms·

Residents furious as Utah approves datacenter twice the size of Manhattan

70 points by pzxc 5mo ago

pzxc 5mo ago
The data center project is by Shark Tank investor Kevin O'Leary and will consume 9GW, more power than the entire State of Utah currently consumes
- nradov 5mo ago
  It's not going to consume 9GW because it won't actually be built. There is no financing. The entire project is a scam. https://youtu.be/RWoV0EXxa7c https://youtu.be/RWoV0EXxa7c
  - SilverElfin 5mo ago
    It may still be built by someone else. Many PE firms are starting to built land portfolios for where a data center can be easily built. So the current owners of the project could just resell it to those with financing.
  - snypher 5mo ago
    >The entire project is a scam. OP said that already when they mentioned Kevin O'Leary.
- Arnt 5mo ago
  Ah, when your write things like that, do you really think they'll come true? If no: why do you write them?
  - pzxc 5mo ago
    Yes, I really think the data center will consume that much power because that's the design Yes, I really think that it will get built, because the people building data centers are throwing money/favors at politicians to get them approved
    - Arnt 5mo ago
      The size of the building applied for is generally weakly related to the effort required for the application. If you have some land, getting approval to build six buildings is often not much more work than getting approval to build one. So why not apply for six even if you only have a tenant for one. If it's the same amount of paperwork and the land is cheap (maybe you can lease the land to the farmer you bought it from). This doesn't apply in places where land is expensive, of course. Central Amsterdam, downtown Manhattan, etc. In places like that you'd want to use your building permits PDQ.
krunck 5mo ago
These are projects designed to serve the US military in it's future wars against China and other "threats". Note that "other threats" includes the American citizenry. You'll be - probably already are - targets of continual AI propaganda and manipulation to keep you compliant and keep paying your taxes to support this waste.
- RiverCrochet 5mo ago
  When AI takes all jobs, how are the taxes gonna be paid?
  - collingreen 5mo ago
    They aren't. Nobody in power is so dumb they haven't thought of this yet - the scary idea is that those people in power don't think this is a problem, which implies the normal folk like us are either on our own or actively exterminated. If the billionaire class doesn't think they need taxes or a workforce then what does that look like? If the population goes from 8B to like 5K + robots for the drudgery then all the problems go away - no more war, no more climate change, no famine, no large logistics problems. I continually worry that these people in power see the rest of us as a nuisance to optimize away.
    - RiverCrochet 5mo ago
      Why can't this happen now without AI? - Certainly the current population level isn't needed to support the current number of billionaires. Isn't there about 1000 right now? I probably eat more than 2 or 3 of them. - What happens in 100 years when the billionaires have kids and their kids have kids?
      - collingreen 5mo ago
        Yeah I don't think AI is required for above, it just pushes the question of what's going to happen if huge swaths of jobs go away. Parent asked who is going to pay taxes in that world. I'm simply saying there's a version of this where "they" don't care because there is no intention to keep the current social order of a large tax paying lower and middle class.
rolph 5mo ago
heres a FAQ re:the site: https://www.boxeldercountyut.gov/647/Stratos-Project-Fact-Sheet https://www.boxeldercountyut.gov/647/Stratos-Project-Fact-Sh... heres a site mapfromthe FAQ: https://www.boxeldercountyut.gov/644/Stratos-Project-Map https://www.boxeldercountyut.gov/644/Stratos-Project-Map it strikes me that a swath of the salt ridge adjacent to the salt lake bed is desired. the proximity to current naturalgas distribution infra, suggests a mulligan,made out of natural gas welling. if there is a large salt dome and gas deposit, theres the revenue and free utilities.
- HeyLaughingBoy 5mo ago
  That URL makes me shudder: an entire county full of Box Elder bugs!
SilverElfin 5mo ago
They should be furious. These tech companies are doing whatever they want, without a care for how it impacts others. SpaceX does it by polluting night skies. The others do it by polluting the planet. Things like light pollution and noise pollution really do matter. But it’s also a lot more direct than that, like people whose water supply loses pressure (https://www.gadgetreview.com/data-center-drains-30-million-gallons-of-water-while-residents-face-restrictions https://www.gadgetreview.com/data-center-drains-30-million-g...) or turns brown (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48111599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48111599) after a data center is built near them.
- astrange 5mo ago
  Entirely fake. Or rather, the water issue is caused by there being /a construction project/, not because it's a data center.
tt24 5mo ago
[flagged]
- toasty228 5mo ago
  Still better than techno fanatics who think "everything new is progress" and "progress is always good"
  - tt24 5mo ago
    Disagree
- collingreen 5mo ago
  After watching everything the luddites predicted come true this insult might not hit like you want it to.
  - tt24 5mo ago
    Like what?
    - collingreen 5mo ago
      Like artisan families unable to continue the craft. Like factories funneling community wealth into the hands of a few capital holders. Like dangerous working conditions maiming workers and children. Like a disenfranchisement of skilled labor leading to worse wages, worse hours, and less prosperity. I'm no expert on the luddites but these are the standard things the movement was saying, from my laypersons colloquial knowledge.
      - tt24 5mo ago
        > Like artisan families unable to continue the craft Not sure what this is referencing > Like factories funneling community wealth into the hands of a few capital holders. Idk how this relates to present day > Like dangerous working conditions maiming workers and children same > Like a disenfranchisement of skilled labor leading to worse wages, worse hours, and less prosperity. Same > Like a disenfranchisement of skilled labor leading to worse wages, worse hours, and less prosperity. Same. No evidence for any of this
ChrisArchitect 5mo ago
Previously: Utah greenlights 9GW AI campus using over twice state electricity https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47932941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47932941 Utah data center: Projected daily heat equivalent to 23 atomic bombs https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48058221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48058221
Ancalagon 5mo ago
This feels insane. Does this feel insane to others?
- em-bee 5mo ago
  when i imagined huge data centers i was thinking the size of a football stadium, one like that for each AI business. twice the size of manhattan goes way beyond i ever imagined. the scene of skynet coming online flashed before my eyes when i read about the size.
water-data-dude 5mo ago
"O’Leary said the extra electricity demand won’t raise residents’ energy bills as new gas-fired generation will power the facility." I really, really doubt this.
- AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
  So it will raise their gas bills, not their electricity bills. That's not much of an improvement...
abdelhousni 5mo ago
All this wasted resource for ads and erotica...

70 points by pzxc 5mo ago

pzxc 5mo ago

The data center project is by Shark Tank investor Kevin O'Leary and will consume 9GW, more power than the entire State of Utah currently consumes

nradov 5mo ago
It's not going to consume 9GW because it won't actually be built. There is no financing. The entire project is a scam. https://youtu.be/RWoV0EXxa7c https://youtu.be/RWoV0EXxa7c
- SilverElfin 5mo ago
  It may still be built by someone else. Many PE firms are starting to built land portfolios for where a data center can be easily built. So the current owners of the project could just resell it to those with financing.
- snypher 5mo ago
  >The entire project is a scam. OP said that already when they mentioned Kevin O'Leary.
Arnt 5mo ago
Ah, when your write things like that, do you really think they'll come true? If no: why do you write them?
- pzxc 5mo ago
  Yes, I really think the data center will consume that much power because that's the design Yes, I really think that it will get built, because the people building data centers are throwing money/favors at politicians to get them approved
  - Arnt 5mo ago
    The size of the building applied for is generally weakly related to the effort required for the application. If you have some land, getting approval to build six buildings is often not much more work than getting approval to build one. So why not apply for six even if you only have a tenant for one. If it's the same amount of paperwork and the land is cheap (maybe you can lease the land to the farmer you bought it from). This doesn't apply in places where land is expensive, of course. Central Amsterdam, downtown Manhattan, etc. In places like that you'd want to use your building permits PDQ.

krunck 5mo ago

These are projects designed to serve the US military in it's future wars against China and other "threats". Note that "other threats" includes the American citizenry. You'll be - probably already are - targets of continual AI propaganda and manipulation to keep you compliant and keep paying your taxes to support this waste.

RiverCrochet 5mo ago
When AI takes all jobs, how are the taxes gonna be paid?
- collingreen 5mo ago
  They aren't. Nobody in power is so dumb they haven't thought of this yet - the scary idea is that those people in power don't think this is a problem, which implies the normal folk like us are either on our own or actively exterminated. If the billionaire class doesn't think they need taxes or a workforce then what does that look like? If the population goes from 8B to like 5K + robots for the drudgery then all the problems go away - no more war, no more climate change, no famine, no large logistics problems. I continually worry that these people in power see the rest of us as a nuisance to optimize away.
  - RiverCrochet 5mo ago
    Why can't this happen now without AI? - Certainly the current population level isn't needed to support the current number of billionaires. Isn't there about 1000 right now? I probably eat more than 2 or 3 of them. - What happens in 100 years when the billionaires have kids and their kids have kids?
    - collingreen 5mo ago
      Yeah I don't think AI is required for above, it just pushes the question of what's going to happen if huge swaths of jobs go away. Parent asked who is going to pay taxes in that world. I'm simply saying there's a version of this where "they" don't care because there is no intention to keep the current social order of a large tax paying lower and middle class.

rolph 5mo ago

heres a FAQ re:the site: https://www.boxeldercountyut.gov/647/Stratos-Project-Fact-Sheet https://www.boxeldercountyut.gov/647/Stratos-Project-Fact-Sh... heres a site mapfromthe FAQ: https://www.boxeldercountyut.gov/644/Stratos-Project-Map https://www.boxeldercountyut.gov/644/Stratos-Project-Map it strikes me that a swath of the salt ridge adjacent to the salt lake bed is desired. the proximity to current naturalgas distribution infra, suggests a mulligan,made out of natural gas welling. if there is a large salt dome and gas deposit, theres the revenue and free utilities.

HeyLaughingBoy 5mo ago
That URL makes me shudder: an entire county full of Box Elder bugs!

SilverElfin 5mo ago

They should be furious. These tech companies are doing whatever they want, without a care for how it impacts others. SpaceX does it by polluting night skies. The others do it by polluting the planet. Things like light pollution and noise pollution really do matter. But it’s also a lot more direct than that, like people whose water supply loses pressure (https://www.gadgetreview.com/data-center-drains-30-million-gallons-of-water-while-residents-face-restrictions https://www.gadgetreview.com/data-center-drains-30-million-g...) or turns brown (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48111599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48111599) after a data center is built near them.

astrange 5mo ago
Entirely fake. Or rather, the water issue is caused by there being /a construction project/, not because it's a data center.

tt24 5mo ago

[flagged]

toasty228 5mo ago
Still better than techno fanatics who think "everything new is progress" and "progress is always good"
- tt24 5mo ago
  Disagree
collingreen 5mo ago
After watching everything the luddites predicted come true this insult might not hit like you want it to.
- tt24 5mo ago
  Like what?
  - collingreen 5mo ago
    Like artisan families unable to continue the craft. Like factories funneling community wealth into the hands of a few capital holders. Like dangerous working conditions maiming workers and children. Like a disenfranchisement of skilled labor leading to worse wages, worse hours, and less prosperity. I'm no expert on the luddites but these are the standard things the movement was saying, from my laypersons colloquial knowledge.
    - tt24 5mo ago
      > Like artisan families unable to continue the craft Not sure what this is referencing > Like factories funneling community wealth into the hands of a few capital holders. Idk how this relates to present day > Like dangerous working conditions maiming workers and children same > Like a disenfranchisement of skilled labor leading to worse wages, worse hours, and less prosperity. Same > Like a disenfranchisement of skilled labor leading to worse wages, worse hours, and less prosperity. Same. No evidence for any of this

ChrisArchitect 5mo ago

Previously: Utah greenlights 9GW AI campus using over twice state electricity https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47932941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47932941 Utah data center: Projected daily heat equivalent to 23 atomic bombs https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48058221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48058221

Ancalagon 5mo ago

This feels insane. Does this feel insane to others?

em-bee 5mo ago
when i imagined huge data centers i was thinking the size of a football stadium, one like that for each AI business. twice the size of manhattan goes way beyond i ever imagined. the scene of skynet coming online flashed before my eyes when i read about the size.

water-data-dude 5mo ago

"O’Leary said the extra electricity demand won’t raise residents’ energy bills as new gas-fired generation will power the facility." I really, really doubt this.

AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
So it will raise their gas bills, not their electricity bills. That's not much of an improvement...

abdelhousni 5mo ago

All this wasted resource for ads and erotica...