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> US deep state Strange reading that on HN and realizing I'm not on Facebook

andriy_koval 6mo ago
Its hard not to see that "deep state": group of elite politicians and super-rich, seize more and more power in American society.
- adjejmxbdjdn 6mo ago
  Whatever you think about elite politicians and the super-rich, they’re not the “deep state”. The whole idea of the deep state is that it’s part of the state, ie government, so not private citizens, and they’re “deep” ie hidden below the layers of government. Thats the exact opposite of politicians and the ultra rich.
  - Avicebron 6mo ago
    Lol I'm pretty sure the "deep state" just means, "manipulating the levers of power from a place without accountablity/oversight" which covers both these shadowy hidden layers of govt you describe and the shadowy wealthy elites funding and lobbying for whatever. It can be both.
    - ambicapter 6mo ago
      Sure, anything can mean whatever you want if you redefine anything to suit your whims at the time.
      - deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - js8 6mo ago
      I agree with parent, that's not how right-wing propaganda portrays the deep state. It's a strawman, of unaccountable government bureacrats. It excludes billionaires and dark money in politics (the real problem), they put themselves on the good side. (Remember DOGE?)
      - andriy_koval 6mo ago
        term predates that right-wing propaganda
        layer8 6mo ago
        Nevertheless the parent is correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#United_States
        andriy_koval 6mo ago
        Your link refers to lots of different contexts,cherry picking one of them which you failed to cite to win your nit-picking argument is not productive, because it is just not agreeable. Also, your link specifically starts with: ""a hybrid association of government elements and parts of top-level industry and finance that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process." which exactly how this was defined by your opponent.
paganel 6mo ago
Snowden.

Its hard not to see that "deep state": group of elite politicians and super-rich, seize more and more power in American society.

adjejmxbdjdn 6mo ago
Whatever you think about elite politicians and the super-rich, they’re not the “deep state”. The whole idea of the deep state is that it’s part of the state, ie government, so not private citizens, and they’re “deep” ie hidden below the layers of government. Thats the exact opposite of politicians and the ultra rich.
- Avicebron 6mo ago
  Lol I'm pretty sure the "deep state" just means, "manipulating the levers of power from a place without accountablity/oversight" which covers both these shadowy hidden layers of govt you describe and the shadowy wealthy elites funding and lobbying for whatever. It can be both.
  - ambicapter 6mo ago
    Sure, anything can mean whatever you want if you redefine anything to suit your whims at the time.
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - js8 6mo ago
    I agree with parent, that's not how right-wing propaganda portrays the deep state. It's a strawman, of unaccountable government bureacrats. It excludes billionaires and dark money in politics (the real problem), they put themselves on the good side. (Remember DOGE?)
    - andriy_koval 6mo ago
      term predates that right-wing propaganda
      - layer8 6mo ago
        Nevertheless the parent is correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#United_States
        andriy_koval 6mo ago
        Your link refers to lots of different contexts,cherry picking one of them which you failed to cite to win your nit-picking argument is not productive, because it is just not agreeable. Also, your link specifically starts with: ""a hybrid association of government elements and parts of top-level industry and finance that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process." which exactly how this was defined by your opponent.

paganel 6mo ago

Snowden.