4 ms·

I'm genuinely surprised that python change was even possible without PEP

Fizzadar 5mo ago
Exactly! Would like to understand more how that came about. PEP exists for a reason.
AdamN 5mo ago
Yeah it seems like a miss. I guess the thinking was that it wasn't developer-facing and just an internal optimization. But of course any change to garbage collection will change the memory and cpu dynamics of the process in a material way.
giancarlostoro 5mo ago
Makes ya miss having a BDFL. Dang I didn't realize he's 70 now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_van_Rossum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_van_Rossum
- zitterbewegung 5mo ago
  I wouldn’t recommend running the latest Python in prod. Honestly 3.x.7 releases are the most mature .
  - giancarlostoro 5mo ago
    I'm currently in a .NET shop so not an issue for me, makes me wonder if Python will eventually adopt the concept of LTS releases, this could have been avoided as an issue if it was part of a non-LTS release.
    - davidkwast 5mo ago
      All Python versions are LTS if you consider 5-year a good measure. https://devguide.python.org/versions/ https://devguide.python.org/versions/
      - aidenn0 5mo ago
        If all releases are LTS, then none are. Part of the point GP was making is that when some releases have a very short maintenance window, then changes that are terrible in them don't need to be reverted (since the maintenance window will close soon anyways).
        giancarlostoro 5mo ago
        It also serves as a soft signal that "hey this new feature, it might break things in unexpected ways even though it looks like it works!" so don't update until the next LTS which should encompass features that have been greenlit as stable, and have sat through a few releases.
metalliqaz 5mo ago
It's not a change to the language, it's a change to the cpython runtime
- ammar2 5mo ago
  PEPs aren't necessarily just for language changes, e.g https://peps.python.org/pep-0436/ https://peps.python.org/pep-0436/ which is largely a CPython implementation detail.
- NooneAtAll3 5mo ago
  problem is that Python is so centralized, CPython is essentially a "reference implementation"
nilslindemann 5mo ago
The lesson from this seems to be to handle this via PEP next time: https://discuss.python.org/t/reverting-the-incremental-gc-in-python-3-14-and-3-15/107014/35 https://discuss.python.org/t/reverting-the-incremental-gc-in...

Exactly! Would like to understand more how that came about. PEP exists for a reason.

AdamN 5mo ago

Yeah it seems like a miss. I guess the thinking was that it wasn't developer-facing and just an internal optimization. But of course any change to garbage collection will change the memory and cpu dynamics of the process in a material way.

giancarlostoro 5mo ago

Makes ya miss having a BDFL. Dang I didn't realize he's 70 now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_van_Rossum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_van_Rossum

zitterbewegung 5mo ago
I wouldn’t recommend running the latest Python in prod. Honestly 3.x.7 releases are the most mature .
- giancarlostoro 5mo ago
  I'm currently in a .NET shop so not an issue for me, makes me wonder if Python will eventually adopt the concept of LTS releases, this could have been avoided as an issue if it was part of a non-LTS release.
  - davidkwast 5mo ago
    All Python versions are LTS if you consider 5-year a good measure. https://devguide.python.org/versions/ https://devguide.python.org/versions/
    - aidenn0 5mo ago
      If all releases are LTS, then none are. Part of the point GP was making is that when some releases have a very short maintenance window, then changes that are terrible in them don't need to be reverted (since the maintenance window will close soon anyways).
      - giancarlostoro 5mo ago
        It also serves as a soft signal that "hey this new feature, it might break things in unexpected ways even though it looks like it works!" so don't update until the next LTS which should encompass features that have been greenlit as stable, and have sat through a few releases.

metalliqaz 5mo ago

It's not a change to the language, it's a change to the cpython runtime

ammar2 5mo ago
PEPs aren't necessarily just for language changes, e.g https://peps.python.org/pep-0436/ https://peps.python.org/pep-0436/ which is largely a CPython implementation detail.
NooneAtAll3 5mo ago
problem is that Python is so centralized, CPython is essentially a "reference implementation"

nilslindemann 5mo ago

The lesson from this seems to be to handle this via PEP next time: https://discuss.python.org/t/reverting-the-incremental-gc-in-python-3-14-and-3-15/107014/35 https://discuss.python.org/t/reverting-the-incremental-gc-in...