4 ms·

“His family described him as a former fighter for the militant Islamist group, but who in his older age had taken an administrative role” …this sounds like a v

“His family described him as a former fighter for the militant Islamist group, but who in his older age had taken an administrative role” …this sounds like a valid military target. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization that, bewilderingly, has declared war on Israel. Whether or not Israel should be mucking around in southern Lebanon is somewhat orthogonal to the validity of an attack on such a man. (And being able to reduce civilian casualties with a phone call is a good thing.) Given the IDF’s record, I’d assume a more-sympathetic target could be found.

paulatreides 6mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- bryanlarsen 6mo ago
  There's certainly a good case to be made that Israel basically shaped Hezbollah into its current form as a terrorist organization. It's understandable, but not excusable. There's no excuse for a terrorist organization, on either side of the border.
  - paulatreides 6mo ago
    There seems to be enough excuses for the US congress tho, they weren't that bothered to aid and abet the extermination of Palestinians with bunker buster bombs that wiped out entire bloodlines. Unless you mean that there is no excuse for a "terrorist" organization that is not the ally of the USA.
  - anonymous_user9 6mo ago
    > There's no excuse for a terrorist organization, on either side of the border. I disagree; consider Jewish resistance fighters during the holocaust. Should they not have fought back any way they could? Terrorism can be excused when the circumstances are sufficiently dire.
chabska 6mo ago
Would you say the same about a 40 year old suburban USA dad who is a Walmart store manager, who served in the US army for 8 years in his twenties? Is that a "valid military target"? Can Iran drop a bomb on the Walmart that he works in?
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
  > a 40 year old suburban USA dad who is a Walmart store manager, who served in the US army for 8 years in his twenties? No. But if he’s still on the Army payroll, yes?
  - Teever 6mo ago
    Like with a pension?
    - jimmydorry 6mo ago
      >"taken an administrative role" Not GP, but no... a pension is not similar to an administrative role.
      - Teever 6mo ago
        Wait I thought he was a city administrator?
  - YeGoblynQueenne 6mo ago
    You can fact-check me on this if you want but soldiers on leave from active duty are not considered combatants and so are not supposed to be targeted. There was a comment by an Israeli soldier way back at the start of the Gaza thing that stayed with me but I can't find it now of course. He was commenting on the tactic of bombing residential buildings at night with everyone inside asleep to get one Hamas operative. He said something along the lines "imagine if they came after us when we were at home on vacation" or something like that. I don't believe anyone thinks that's fair, or legitimate, or anything of the sort, it's just something that can be done, so it's done. The way I understand the article above is that there's not even a clear motive anymore. The AI says "bomb them", so they're bombed, end of.
noworriesnate 6mo ago
So anyone who has ever served in the IDF is fair game? Got it
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
  > anyone who has ever served in the IDF is fair game? Aren’t they? Particularly if they’re still doing work for the IDF or are active reservists.
  - noworriesnate 6mo ago
    No, that’s the point, Israel wants their civilians to not be targeted even though many/ most of them have served in the IDF, but they targeted this man.
    - thisislife2 6mo ago
      In some ways, Israel is a military State because everyone (with some minor exception) is required to serve in the military. If everyone is a trained soldier, the only true civilians are the children ...
      - tw04 6mo ago
        Actually not true. Most of the ultra orthodox are exempted from service and are a huge source of the support for continued military operations. Because they don’t have to actually put themselves at risk. It’s been the primary source of netenyahu’s ability to stay in power. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly580gkd9ro https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly580gkd9ro https://www.npr.org/2026/05/12/g-s1-121631/israel-military-ultra-orthodox-netanyahu-coalition https://www.npr.org/2026/05/12/g-s1-121631/israel-military-u...
        thisislife2 6mo ago
        That's the "minor" exception I mentioned. But, as you must be aware, there is also a strong political campaign in Israel to remove this exemption. This is also likely to be a major political issue in the upcoming election.
gypsy_boots 6mo ago
You're led to this conclusion because you have a lack of understanding of the structure of Hezbollah, and a seeming disinterest in understanding it more. Like it or not, Hezbollah serves a number of functions in Lebanon. They have civil servants (think trash collectors, postal delivery representatives, etc.) They also have politicians. A corollary would be if the Democratic Party in the United States had a militarized wing, politicians, and civil servants. It's a structure that those in the West don't recognize or understand, and leads you to the conclusion that anyone killed in the pager attack, for instance, is just terrorist adjacent. So a trash collector who's killed in the pager attack, and their family, are not in fact, 'terrorists'. Also worth investigating in all of this are the structures and centers of power that are labeling them as a terrorist organization and why.
- justsomejew22 6mo ago
  I don't know so much about Hizballah (though maybe more than the average american), but I do know a bit about Israel and its army. The late Yeshayahu Leibovitch called certain behaviors "judonazism". And currently this is the mainstream of the Israeli society. Everyone in Israel knows it (though they would try to cast it in different terms), few speak about it, the ones who do get silenced, most simply don't care (who cared in nazi Germany about jews massacred in the woods or starved to death and killed in concentration camps?). The government, the judicial system, and of course the army (just check Haliva's interview on Guardian, and he is, I suspect, "a moderate"..)
- damnesian 6mo ago
  your corollary is what terrifies me. On one hand, it is fascinating to get a glimpse into how it works. On the other, we are next.
- ShinyLeftPad 6mo ago
  This is a fallacious argument. As if it was controversial to say that an organization engaging in lawless violence and terror attacks (imagine if those attacks were against you) doesn't have any moral ground to stand on, even if it does some other things besides that. It's basically the mafia approach. They are known to help people and stuff sometimes, does it mean we should condone them and protest when they are targeted? The key people in mafia are also always in "administrative" roles. If you only target the guy pulling the trigger, you would be a fool since he is pretty low among the pawns.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
Terr_ 6mo ago
> valid military target But is it a battlefield situation too? What's the line between "we had no other choice" versus "we could have arrested them and had a trial but murdering them with soldiers is easier"? For example, suppose a mugger waves a knife at your face, and takes your stuff. Sure, they were "a valid self-defense target"—for thirty seconds—but that can't justify following them home and killing them in their sleep.
- infamouscow 6mo ago
  This is still very legal in Texas (provided it's at night). Knowing that you can be killed is a very powerful deterrent for most criminals.
  - Terr_ 6mo ago
    In their sleep in their bed? I don't think that would fly even in Texas.
- urikaduri 6mo ago
  A military base is a valid target and the barracks can be bombed to death even when everybody is sleeping. Hezbollah could significantly reduce collateral damage by choosing to sleep in designated bases separated from civilian buildings. It would also make killing them much easier.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]

paulatreides 6mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
bryanlarsen 6mo ago
There's certainly a good case to be made that Israel basically shaped Hezbollah into its current form as a terrorist organization. It's understandable, but not excusable. There's no excuse for a terrorist organization, on either side of the border.
- paulatreides 6mo ago
  There seems to be enough excuses for the US congress tho, they weren't that bothered to aid and abet the extermination of Palestinians with bunker buster bombs that wiped out entire bloodlines. Unless you mean that there is no excuse for a "terrorist" organization that is not the ally of the USA.
- anonymous_user9 6mo ago
  > There's no excuse for a terrorist organization, on either side of the border. I disagree; consider Jewish resistance fighters during the holocaust. Should they not have fought back any way they could? Terrorism can be excused when the circumstances are sufficiently dire.

chabska 6mo ago

Would you say the same about a 40 year old suburban USA dad who is a Walmart store manager, who served in the US army for 8 years in his twenties? Is that a "valid military target"? Can Iran drop a bomb on the Walmart that he works in?

JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
> a 40 year old suburban USA dad who is a Walmart store manager, who served in the US army for 8 years in his twenties? No. But if he’s still on the Army payroll, yes?
- Teever 6mo ago
  Like with a pension?
  - jimmydorry 6mo ago
    >"taken an administrative role" Not GP, but no... a pension is not similar to an administrative role.
    - Teever 6mo ago
      Wait I thought he was a city administrator?
- YeGoblynQueenne 6mo ago
  You can fact-check me on this if you want but soldiers on leave from active duty are not considered combatants and so are not supposed to be targeted. There was a comment by an Israeli soldier way back at the start of the Gaza thing that stayed with me but I can't find it now of course. He was commenting on the tactic of bombing residential buildings at night with everyone inside asleep to get one Hamas operative. He said something along the lines "imagine if they came after us when we were at home on vacation" or something like that. I don't believe anyone thinks that's fair, or legitimate, or anything of the sort, it's just something that can be done, so it's done. The way I understand the article above is that there's not even a clear motive anymore. The AI says "bomb them", so they're bombed, end of.

noworriesnate 6mo ago

So anyone who has ever served in the IDF is fair game? Got it

JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
> anyone who has ever served in the IDF is fair game? Aren’t they? Particularly if they’re still doing work for the IDF or are active reservists.
- noworriesnate 6mo ago
  No, that’s the point, Israel wants their civilians to not be targeted even though many/ most of them have served in the IDF, but they targeted this man.
  - thisislife2 6mo ago
    In some ways, Israel is a military State because everyone (with some minor exception) is required to serve in the military. If everyone is a trained soldier, the only true civilians are the children ...
    - tw04 6mo ago
      Actually not true. Most of the ultra orthodox are exempted from service and are a huge source of the support for continued military operations. Because they don’t have to actually put themselves at risk. It’s been the primary source of netenyahu’s ability to stay in power. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly580gkd9ro https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly580gkd9ro https://www.npr.org/2026/05/12/g-s1-121631/israel-military-ultra-orthodox-netanyahu-coalition https://www.npr.org/2026/05/12/g-s1-121631/israel-military-u...
      - thisislife2 6mo ago
        That's the "minor" exception I mentioned. But, as you must be aware, there is also a strong political campaign in Israel to remove this exemption. This is also likely to be a major political issue in the upcoming election.

gypsy_boots 6mo ago

You're led to this conclusion because you have a lack of understanding of the structure of Hezbollah, and a seeming disinterest in understanding it more. Like it or not, Hezbollah serves a number of functions in Lebanon. They have civil servants (think trash collectors, postal delivery representatives, etc.) They also have politicians. A corollary would be if the Democratic Party in the United States had a militarized wing, politicians, and civil servants. It's a structure that those in the West don't recognize or understand, and leads you to the conclusion that anyone killed in the pager attack, for instance, is just terrorist adjacent. So a trash collector who's killed in the pager attack, and their family, are not in fact, 'terrorists'. Also worth investigating in all of this are the structures and centers of power that are labeling them as a terrorist organization and why.

justsomejew22 6mo ago
I don't know so much about Hizballah (though maybe more than the average american), but I do know a bit about Israel and its army. The late Yeshayahu Leibovitch called certain behaviors "judonazism". And currently this is the mainstream of the Israeli society. Everyone in Israel knows it (though they would try to cast it in different terms), few speak about it, the ones who do get silenced, most simply don't care (who cared in nazi Germany about jews massacred in the woods or starved to death and killed in concentration camps?). The government, the judicial system, and of course the army (just check Haliva's interview on Guardian, and he is, I suspect, "a moderate"..)
damnesian 6mo ago
your corollary is what terrifies me. On one hand, it is fascinating to get a glimpse into how it works. On the other, we are next.
ShinyLeftPad 6mo ago
This is a fallacious argument. As if it was controversial to say that an organization engaging in lawless violence and terror attacks (imagine if those attacks were against you) doesn't have any moral ground to stand on, even if it does some other things besides that. It's basically the mafia approach. They are known to help people and stuff sometimes, does it mean we should condone them and protest when they are targeted? The key people in mafia are also always in "administrative" roles. If you only target the guy pulling the trigger, you would be a fool since he is pretty low among the pawns.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

Terr_ 6mo ago

> valid military target But is it a battlefield situation too? What's the line between "we had no other choice" versus "we could have arrested them and had a trial but murdering them with soldiers is easier"? For example, suppose a mugger waves a knife at your face, and takes your stuff. Sure, they were "a valid self-defense target"—for thirty seconds—but that can't justify following them home and killing them in their sleep.

infamouscow 6mo ago
This is still very legal in Texas (provided it's at night). Knowing that you can be killed is a very powerful deterrent for most criminals.
- Terr_ 6mo ago
  In their sleep in their bed? I don't think that would fly even in Texas.
urikaduri 6mo ago
A military base is a valid target and the barracks can be bombed to death even when everybody is sleeping. Hezbollah could significantly reduce collateral damage by choosing to sleep in designated bases separated from civilian buildings. It would also make killing them much easier.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]