6 ms·

> I would go for a Mac Air or Neo, but only if I could install ChromeOS. To each their own, but this is absolute insanity.

array_key_first 5mo ago
ChromeOS is a very competent, fast, and easy-to-use operating system. For my family, it's basically perfect. It's virtually unbreakable and anyone can pick it up quickly. Windows is a hot mess and frankly I wouldn't recommend it to anyone outside of gamers. For the technically competent, there's nothing to gain on Windows, and it will just get in the way. For the those less technically inclined, Windows means complexity and viruses. Also most Windows laptops suck major ass. MacOS is better, especially if you have an iPhone. But even MacOS is a bit too complex for the less technically inclined. If you have an android phone, then a chromebook is 100% the way to go for those people. Also, chromebooks get crazy software support these days, on par with macbooks.
- kelnos 5mo ago
  > ChromeOS is a very competent, fast, and easy-to-use operating system. It also locks you into the cloud services of an advertising company that loves harvesting your data to help find new ways to sell you things.
  - noprocrasted 5mo ago
    That’s no better than Windows (without a lot of effort and a constant game of cat and mouse only achievable by technical users). At least Google’s cloud services tend to actually be good, if you made peace with the tracking and privacy concerns.
  - suriya-ganesh 5mo ago
    I see this too often. But, realistically users do not care about the harvesting as it is unseen and behind the scenes. Most people just want get stuff done in a competent, fast and easy-to-use operating system. >It also locks you into the cloud services of an advertising company this is pretty much any company these days. microsoft is guilty of the same.
    - Forgeties79 5mo ago
      >But, realistically users do not care about the harvesting as it is unseen and behind the scenes. Like them I think I am also surprised not because that isn't the case, but because it's wild to see that take on HN, which skews way more towards privacy/owning your compute.
      - suriya-ganesh 5mo ago
        I've been working in the privacy space for ~4 years now and have worked across, homomorphic encryption, Federated Learning and finetuning. I've also run multiple user studies on privacy during my time doing a master's in privacy at CMU. almost 10/10 times users will choose, easy to use and accessible over complex and more control over their data. In fact, for one of the Mag7 we proved that, users only want to have the feeling of safety and don't really care what gets done with the data. very unfortunate, but this is the world we live in.
    - shimman 5mo ago
      Users absolutely care, what a terrible comment. Users have ZERO choice. Tech companies are not regulated, tech companies abuse their monopolies at their users detriment, and tech companies do not have consumer councils to help mitigate these issues. What it actually appears to be is we have a market where undemocratic business leaders are deciding the direction of technology in a country that only seems to benefit them and not the population. What a terrible mindset to have and I sincerely hope you never have any capacity to yield power in your life.
      - mcmcmc 5mo ago
        They do have a choice, they just don’t want to a) pay for anything or b) be cut off online society
        shimman 5mo ago
        Man you clearly need to talk to people outside of Google. I'm glad the vast majority of Americans hate tech companies and their leaders if this is the mindshare they purport: "you don't have a choice, fuck you." Great attitude that goes well with voters.
  - jeroenhd 5mo ago
    So does Windows. macOS locks you into a company that hoovers up your data but pinky promises not to sell it and will fight tooth and nail to have prevent others from doing the exact same thing on their operating system. If you care about privacy, Linux and BSDs are the only options, but actually good out-of-the-box Linux laptops are few and far between. Except for Chromebooks, of course.
    - retired 5mo ago
      Big difference is that you can use macOS without a user account. Can't do that with Windows without some hidden terminal magic.
      - sneezychl 5mo ago
        MacOS doesn't have to force it, users will gladly sign into their iCloud account. Virtually nobody uses the Windows Store, but the Mac App Store is a necessity given how restricted 3rd party apps are on macOS now.
        retired 5mo ago
        Since when is the Mac App Store a necessity? It's still possible to download DMGs straight from the internet and install the .app by dragging it to /Applications The only restriction to 3rd party apps are unsigned apps. Very rare these days, mainly small hobby projects. You can still activate them through the System Settings.
        Marsymars 5mo ago
        Unsigned apps are a pain, but you can have your app signed without being in the macOS App Store. Nearly all my apps are signed and non-App Store. e.g. Homebrew requires Casks be signed, so anything you can install via Homebrew is a single line to install without additional restrictions.
      - Marsymars 5mo ago
        Though if you want to get rid of the persistent nag on your Dock to log in to your Apple account, that's a significantly higher level of magic than what it takes to use Windows without an MS account. (I just installed Windows a week ago without an MS account, and it was a 30 second step during setup to skip an MS account. The steps to get rid of the macOS nag are daunting enough that I just live with it permanently.)
  - toast0 5mo ago
    Apparently you can create a local account on a chrome device [1], although I can't vouch for the process; otherwise cloud auth is tied to Google, yes. You could use a guest account for everything, if your really want; but then you lose out on persistence. But as long as you accept that everything you do is in a browser; which is reality for the vast majority of computer users, there's no real lock-in. You can just as easily use the browser version of Microsoft Office as the browser version of Google Docs. You're certainly locked into Google for the browser and for updates, unless you do a lot of work. But it's been a while since it was common to get commercial OS updates from a 3rd party. [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/how-use-chromebook-without-google-account/ https://www.xda-developers.com/how-use-chromebook-without-go...
  - serf 5mo ago
    wild that we're talking about which OS locks you up more w.r.t an apple product.
  - array_key_first 5mo ago
    Yes, this is true, and I myself am degoogled. Mostly, except YouTube, but I am off Gmail and stuff these days. But, we need to pick our battles. For most people the reality is they have a Google account anyway, and they will log into and sync on any device. So, it makes no difference.
  - random2021 5mo ago
    Does it matter? Your friend using Android or iOS may have typed your exact address, phone, signal id, gps, etc on her Google/apple account. And now? If you fly to use you are giving more info. Are you running your own bank? Pepper are you? What happens when you join job (tons of papers?)
- fwipsy 5mo ago
  I used to think so too, but when my extremely-non-techy mother's Chromebook died, she was able to switch from chrome OS to Ubuntu with minimal fuss. Chrome OS has some specific features, but if you just need a web browser Ubuntu works fine.
  - sneak 5mo ago
    You say this only because she hasn’t been ransomwared yet, which is impossible on ChromeOS.
    - array_key_first 5mo ago
      It's also very rare on Linux. On Linux, 99% of software comes from trusted repositories. The odds of randomware existing in the Ubuntu repos is low. It's not the wild wild West like Windows. There are structural reasons why Linux desktops are less susceptible to malware, as well as the obvious marketshare issue.
    - fwipsy 5mo ago
      It's also a non-issue if you use Ubuntu like chrome OS. She doesn't have any data stored locally. More generally, this feels roughly equivalent to saying "it's better to live in a tent than a house, because a house will crush you when an earthquake happens."
- commandersaki 5mo ago
  I support a lot of old folk on laptops that are less technically inclined. All they want is Windows because familiarity, despite Microsoft making things unfamiliar every release.
- andybak 5mo ago
  Counterpoint. I use Windows and MacOS daily and they are both awful (and occasionally wonderful) for different reasons. Windows on a laptop sucks simply because I can't close the lid and put it in my bag without it catching fire, but apart from that I don't care too much either way. I use Linux CLI all the time but every time I've tried to use a Linux desktop as a daily driver, it's stopped working one day for reasons that are beyond my ability to care enough to figure out.
- dinkumthinkum 5mo ago
  MacOS is too complex? What web site even is this?
  - array_key_first 5mo ago
    Sorry, I mean for some users who can barely use computers as it is, so mostly the elderly. For us obviously it's not too complex. But for some, it is, and it's also largely overkill because some groups don't want to run software anyway. They just need a file browser and web browser.
fortran77 5mo ago
It's the only OS for my 93 year old mother. I can manage it remotely, too, and she can't mess it up.
- encom 5mo ago
  My mother (80+) runs Fedora, and I believe she is incapable of messing it up, even if she did have the root password. Doubleclicking random exe files off the internet is almost uniquely a Windows problem. I dunno about Macs - its users are usually technically illiterate, but Apple has done a pretty good job of locking users out of their own machines.
  - meatmanek 5mo ago
    > Doubleclicking random exe files off the internet is almost uniquely a Windows problem. Tell that to my partner's grandfather, who managed to find and install malware chrome extensions on his chromebox.
  - JSR_FDED 5mo ago
    Gosh I can’t believe how lucky I am. I’m not technically illiterate and I haven’t been locked out of my machine.
serf 5mo ago
A computer filled with great hardware that gets its hands held behind its back by shit software sounds like the soup de jeure for apple.
whodidntante 5mo ago
I used DOS,then Windows, then Mac for a total of almost 40 years. I think using Windows and OSX are insanity, but to each their own. I now have a machine that boots almost instantly and just works without maintenance, upgrades, or compatibility issues. I can throw it in the river, and for $300 get a machine that will be up and running in about one minute. I can use multiple machines (small/cheap to bring on a trip, laptop for casual working, larger machine for more serious work, even at the same time. I have full access to everything from my iPhone, or access to some computer anywhere. I use remote VSCode via Crostini to do development work (terminal, vi, Codex, Claude Code) on a bunch of beelink boxes and Hetzner servers. I cannot run installed software and I am dependent on Google for email, files, photos. For the latter, I have backups of my email and files (photos are not as easy). Life is simpler this way.
- ralfd 5mo ago
  You can use Google services on a Macbook and have installed apps.
  - overfeed 5mo ago
    Not for $300, you don't. I take more risks with my Chromebooks than I do with a MacBook, such as mountain-biking with it or leaning it in a car when visiting sketchy neighborhoods. Chromebooks offer a good-enough on-the-go, full-Unix experience, with an all-day battery. Sure, M-series Macs have higher performance and >20h batteries, but those nice-to-haves re well in excess of what most users need, most of the time.
    - BakeInBeens 5mo ago
      I think Google is alluding to the fact that they'll continue Chromebooks but they aren't promising anything right now, or even clarifying much outside of the specific reveals. They've won the netbook market and they'll have existing contracts and education market to always account for. With messaging that the ChromeOS experience will change and may have some things removed to refocus it I think the assumption is that it continues within it's specific use currently.
sneak 5mo ago
I work for organizations that spend thousands per year on MDM to turn macOS running on Macbook Airs into effectively ChromeOS. For certain use cases, a computer that can do nothing whatsoever except run the absolute latest version of production Chrome is better than any other device.
keyle 5mo ago
Please refrain from making claims like "absolute insanity" without backing it with some sort of commentary on the claim. It really isn't worthy of HN. see guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

array_key_first 5mo ago

ChromeOS is a very competent, fast, and easy-to-use operating system. For my family, it's basically perfect. It's virtually unbreakable and anyone can pick it up quickly. Windows is a hot mess and frankly I wouldn't recommend it to anyone outside of gamers. For the technically competent, there's nothing to gain on Windows, and it will just get in the way. For the those less technically inclined, Windows means complexity and viruses. Also most Windows laptops suck major ass. MacOS is better, especially if you have an iPhone. But even MacOS is a bit too complex for the less technically inclined. If you have an android phone, then a chromebook is 100% the way to go for those people. Also, chromebooks get crazy software support these days, on par with macbooks.

kelnos 5mo ago
> ChromeOS is a very competent, fast, and easy-to-use operating system. It also locks you into the cloud services of an advertising company that loves harvesting your data to help find new ways to sell you things.
- noprocrasted 5mo ago
  That’s no better than Windows (without a lot of effort and a constant game of cat and mouse only achievable by technical users). At least Google’s cloud services tend to actually be good, if you made peace with the tracking and privacy concerns.
- suriya-ganesh 5mo ago
  I see this too often. But, realistically users do not care about the harvesting as it is unseen and behind the scenes. Most people just want get stuff done in a competent, fast and easy-to-use operating system. >It also locks you into the cloud services of an advertising company this is pretty much any company these days. microsoft is guilty of the same.
  - Forgeties79 5mo ago
    >But, realistically users do not care about the harvesting as it is unseen and behind the scenes. Like them I think I am also surprised not because that isn't the case, but because it's wild to see that take on HN, which skews way more towards privacy/owning your compute.
    - suriya-ganesh 5mo ago
      I've been working in the privacy space for ~4 years now and have worked across, homomorphic encryption, Federated Learning and finetuning. I've also run multiple user studies on privacy during my time doing a master's in privacy at CMU. almost 10/10 times users will choose, easy to use and accessible over complex and more control over their data. In fact, for one of the Mag7 we proved that, users only want to have the feeling of safety and don't really care what gets done with the data. very unfortunate, but this is the world we live in.
  - shimman 5mo ago
    Users absolutely care, what a terrible comment. Users have ZERO choice. Tech companies are not regulated, tech companies abuse their monopolies at their users detriment, and tech companies do not have consumer councils to help mitigate these issues. What it actually appears to be is we have a market where undemocratic business leaders are deciding the direction of technology in a country that only seems to benefit them and not the population. What a terrible mindset to have and I sincerely hope you never have any capacity to yield power in your life.
    - mcmcmc 5mo ago
      They do have a choice, they just don’t want to a) pay for anything or b) be cut off online society
      - shimman 5mo ago
        Man you clearly need to talk to people outside of Google. I'm glad the vast majority of Americans hate tech companies and their leaders if this is the mindshare they purport: "you don't have a choice, fuck you." Great attitude that goes well with voters.
- jeroenhd 5mo ago
  So does Windows. macOS locks you into a company that hoovers up your data but pinky promises not to sell it and will fight tooth and nail to have prevent others from doing the exact same thing on their operating system. If you care about privacy, Linux and BSDs are the only options, but actually good out-of-the-box Linux laptops are few and far between. Except for Chromebooks, of course.
  - retired 5mo ago
    Big difference is that you can use macOS without a user account. Can't do that with Windows without some hidden terminal magic.
    - sneezychl 5mo ago
      MacOS doesn't have to force it, users will gladly sign into their iCloud account. Virtually nobody uses the Windows Store, but the Mac App Store is a necessity given how restricted 3rd party apps are on macOS now.
      - retired 5mo ago
        Since when is the Mac App Store a necessity? It's still possible to download DMGs straight from the internet and install the .app by dragging it to /Applications The only restriction to 3rd party apps are unsigned apps. Very rare these days, mainly small hobby projects. You can still activate them through the System Settings.
      - Marsymars 5mo ago
        Unsigned apps are a pain, but you can have your app signed without being in the macOS App Store. Nearly all my apps are signed and non-App Store. e.g. Homebrew requires Casks be signed, so anything you can install via Homebrew is a single line to install without additional restrictions.
    - Marsymars 5mo ago
      Though if you want to get rid of the persistent nag on your Dock to log in to your Apple account, that's a significantly higher level of magic than what it takes to use Windows without an MS account. (I just installed Windows a week ago without an MS account, and it was a 30 second step during setup to skip an MS account. The steps to get rid of the macOS nag are daunting enough that I just live with it permanently.)
- toast0 5mo ago
  Apparently you can create a local account on a chrome device [1], although I can't vouch for the process; otherwise cloud auth is tied to Google, yes. You could use a guest account for everything, if your really want; but then you lose out on persistence. But as long as you accept that everything you do is in a browser; which is reality for the vast majority of computer users, there's no real lock-in. You can just as easily use the browser version of Microsoft Office as the browser version of Google Docs. You're certainly locked into Google for the browser and for updates, unless you do a lot of work. But it's been a while since it was common to get commercial OS updates from a 3rd party. [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/how-use-chromebook-without-google-account/ https://www.xda-developers.com/how-use-chromebook-without-go...
- serf 5mo ago
  wild that we're talking about which OS locks you up more w.r.t an apple product.
- array_key_first 5mo ago
  Yes, this is true, and I myself am degoogled. Mostly, except YouTube, but I am off Gmail and stuff these days. But, we need to pick our battles. For most people the reality is they have a Google account anyway, and they will log into and sync on any device. So, it makes no difference.
- random2021 5mo ago
  Does it matter? Your friend using Android or iOS may have typed your exact address, phone, signal id, gps, etc on her Google/apple account. And now? If you fly to use you are giving more info. Are you running your own bank? Pepper are you? What happens when you join job (tons of papers?)
fwipsy 5mo ago
I used to think so too, but when my extremely-non-techy mother's Chromebook died, she was able to switch from chrome OS to Ubuntu with minimal fuss. Chrome OS has some specific features, but if you just need a web browser Ubuntu works fine.
- sneak 5mo ago
  You say this only because she hasn’t been ransomwared yet, which is impossible on ChromeOS.
  - array_key_first 5mo ago
    It's also very rare on Linux. On Linux, 99% of software comes from trusted repositories. The odds of randomware existing in the Ubuntu repos is low. It's not the wild wild West like Windows. There are structural reasons why Linux desktops are less susceptible to malware, as well as the obvious marketshare issue.
  - fwipsy 5mo ago
    It's also a non-issue if you use Ubuntu like chrome OS. She doesn't have any data stored locally. More generally, this feels roughly equivalent to saying "it's better to live in a tent than a house, because a house will crush you when an earthquake happens."
commandersaki 5mo ago
I support a lot of old folk on laptops that are less technically inclined. All they want is Windows because familiarity, despite Microsoft making things unfamiliar every release.
andybak 5mo ago
Counterpoint. I use Windows and MacOS daily and they are both awful (and occasionally wonderful) for different reasons. Windows on a laptop sucks simply because I can't close the lid and put it in my bag without it catching fire, but apart from that I don't care too much either way. I use Linux CLI all the time but every time I've tried to use a Linux desktop as a daily driver, it's stopped working one day for reasons that are beyond my ability to care enough to figure out.
dinkumthinkum 5mo ago
MacOS is too complex? What web site even is this?
- array_key_first 5mo ago
  Sorry, I mean for some users who can barely use computers as it is, so mostly the elderly. For us obviously it's not too complex. But for some, it is, and it's also largely overkill because some groups don't want to run software anyway. They just need a file browser and web browser.

fortran77 5mo ago

It's the only OS for my 93 year old mother. I can manage it remotely, too, and she can't mess it up.

encom 5mo ago
My mother (80+) runs Fedora, and I believe she is incapable of messing it up, even if she did have the root password. Doubleclicking random exe files off the internet is almost uniquely a Windows problem. I dunno about Macs - its users are usually technically illiterate, but Apple has done a pretty good job of locking users out of their own machines.
- meatmanek 5mo ago
  > Doubleclicking random exe files off the internet is almost uniquely a Windows problem. Tell that to my partner's grandfather, who managed to find and install malware chrome extensions on his chromebox.
- JSR_FDED 5mo ago
  Gosh I can’t believe how lucky I am. I’m not technically illiterate and I haven’t been locked out of my machine.

serf 5mo ago

A computer filled with great hardware that gets its hands held behind its back by shit software sounds like the soup de jeure for apple.

whodidntante 5mo ago

I used DOS,then Windows, then Mac for a total of almost 40 years. I think using Windows and OSX are insanity, but to each their own. I now have a machine that boots almost instantly and just works without maintenance, upgrades, or compatibility issues. I can throw it in the river, and for $300 get a machine that will be up and running in about one minute. I can use multiple machines (small/cheap to bring on a trip, laptop for casual working, larger machine for more serious work, even at the same time. I have full access to everything from my iPhone, or access to some computer anywhere. I use remote VSCode via Crostini to do development work (terminal, vi, Codex, Claude Code) on a bunch of beelink boxes and Hetzner servers. I cannot run installed software and I am dependent on Google for email, files, photos. For the latter, I have backups of my email and files (photos are not as easy). Life is simpler this way.

ralfd 5mo ago
You can use Google services on a Macbook and have installed apps.
- overfeed 5mo ago
  Not for $300, you don't. I take more risks with my Chromebooks than I do with a MacBook, such as mountain-biking with it or leaning it in a car when visiting sketchy neighborhoods. Chromebooks offer a good-enough on-the-go, full-Unix experience, with an all-day battery. Sure, M-series Macs have higher performance and >20h batteries, but those nice-to-haves re well in excess of what most users need, most of the time.
  - BakeInBeens 5mo ago
    I think Google is alluding to the fact that they'll continue Chromebooks but they aren't promising anything right now, or even clarifying much outside of the specific reveals. They've won the netbook market and they'll have existing contracts and education market to always account for. With messaging that the ChromeOS experience will change and may have some things removed to refocus it I think the assumption is that it continues within it's specific use currently.

sneak 5mo ago

I work for organizations that spend thousands per year on MDM to turn macOS running on Macbook Airs into effectively ChromeOS. For certain use cases, a computer that can do nothing whatsoever except run the absolute latest version of production Chrome is better than any other device.

keyle 5mo ago

Please refrain from making claims like "absolute insanity" without backing it with some sort of commentary on the claim. It really isn't worthy of HN. see guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html