4 ms·

> Basically skeptical of common forms in modernity, that is very clearly the intention. However, I have also seen that in extreme far-right communities this fil

> Basically skeptical of common forms in modernity, that is very clearly the intention. However, I have also seen that in extreme far-right communities this film represents how Jewish people control the world... somehow I don't think that is what Carpenter was going for. Say what you will about claiming that the Jews secretly control the world like the aliens in the 1988 John Carpenter movie They Live, the people making this claim are certainly not obeying, conforming, or refraining from questioning authority.

pjc50 5mo ago
"Say what you want about the tenets of national socialism, at least it's an ethos" -- The Big Lebowski, another influential film to many people.
- subroutine 5mo ago
  And let's also not forget that keeping wildlife, an amphibious rodent, within the city isn't legal either.
- JuniperMesos 5mo ago
  I like The Big Lebowski, it has some fun lines, but John Goodman's Walter Sobchak doesn't have a monopoly on the English phrase "Say what you will about X". And indeed apparently the line was in fact "say what you want about the tenets of national socialism", not "say what you will about the tenets of national socialism" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_29yvYpf4w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_29yvYpf4w).
  - pjc50 5mo ago
    The second half of the line was also relevant, since the claim of Jews controlling the world was specifically a Nazi one.
    - ZeroGravitas 5mo ago
      That actually traces back further to, appositley, the White Russians and their Protocols of Zion to smear democracy as a Jewish plot. From there it spread to Henry Ford, Winston Churchill and Adolf Hitler amongst others.
      - kridsdale1 5mo ago
        Is that why Lebowski drinks White Russians exclusively?
autoexec 5mo ago
> the people making this claim are certainly not obeying, conforming, or refraining from questioning authority. In my experience racists tend to just latch on to different authorities to blindly follow and obedience and conformity are even more strongly enforced. I've had long discussions with racists over the "rebel" identity they see in the confederate flag who shortly after demonstrated incredible amounts of boot-licking when it came to police. Most of the racists I've meet were very dedicated to hierarchies, a select set of social norms, old-fashioned gender roles, etc. and conformance was absolutely seen as mandatory.
- cwillu 5mo ago
  But it's not The Federal Authorities™, so they don't think it counts as conformity.
  - kridsdale1 5mo ago
    Until it’s ICE boots to be licked.
cwillu 5mo ago
They absolutely conform; by what mechanism do you think they all happened to pick the same bundle of labels and beliefs?
- account42 5mo ago
  Of course, choosing to stand up to the man together with those like minded makes you the real conformist. A deep philosophical conundrum for the prepubescent.
  - wat10000 5mo ago
    Life got easier once I realized that being contrarian meant you were just as much controlled by other people as being conformist.
- ClikeX 5mo ago
  I remember a conspiracy nut telling me "the truth", saying not to believe what the media told me, and do my own research. And then proceeded to point me to a few conspiracy influencers that were telling him what to think. It was very ironic.
- throw0101c 5mo ago
  > They absolutely conform; by what mechanism do you think they all happened to pick the same bundle of labels and beliefs? Are you conforming/obeying when you believe the Earth is round? That the sky is blue? Perhaps a bunch of people picking "the same bundle of labels and beliefs" is… simply them recognizing/accepting reality?
  - the_af 5mo ago
    I don't think it's the same. I like to think of these supremacist/racist conspiracy theories as another form of control: in many cases these people are right to be upset, since they see things in the world that are truly unfair, but their anger gets redirected to bizarre beliefs and racism. So it's a way of controlling and channeling their anger to a place where real change becomes impossible, just anger and venting and weird beliefs in secret Jewish/Muslim/Woke/Illuminati cabals running the world. Real change is hard, and involves compromise and dealing with people with different ideas and goals. Anger against immigrants, or some ethnic or religious group, is easier.

pjc50 5mo ago

"Say what you want about the tenets of national socialism, at least it's an ethos" -- The Big Lebowski, another influential film to many people.

subroutine 5mo ago
And let's also not forget that keeping wildlife, an amphibious rodent, within the city isn't legal either.
JuniperMesos 5mo ago
I like The Big Lebowski, it has some fun lines, but John Goodman's Walter Sobchak doesn't have a monopoly on the English phrase "Say what you will about X". And indeed apparently the line was in fact "say what you want about the tenets of national socialism", not "say what you will about the tenets of national socialism" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_29yvYpf4w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_29yvYpf4w).
- pjc50 5mo ago
  The second half of the line was also relevant, since the claim of Jews controlling the world was specifically a Nazi one.
  - ZeroGravitas 5mo ago
    That actually traces back further to, appositley, the White Russians and their Protocols of Zion to smear democracy as a Jewish plot. From there it spread to Henry Ford, Winston Churchill and Adolf Hitler amongst others.
    - kridsdale1 5mo ago
      Is that why Lebowski drinks White Russians exclusively?

autoexec 5mo ago

> the people making this claim are certainly not obeying, conforming, or refraining from questioning authority. In my experience racists tend to just latch on to different authorities to blindly follow and obedience and conformity are even more strongly enforced. I've had long discussions with racists over the "rebel" identity they see in the confederate flag who shortly after demonstrated incredible amounts of boot-licking when it came to police. Most of the racists I've meet were very dedicated to hierarchies, a select set of social norms, old-fashioned gender roles, etc. and conformance was absolutely seen as mandatory.

cwillu 5mo ago
But it's not The Federal Authorities™, so they don't think it counts as conformity.
- kridsdale1 5mo ago
  Until it’s ICE boots to be licked.

cwillu 5mo ago

They absolutely conform; by what mechanism do you think they all happened to pick the same bundle of labels and beliefs?

account42 5mo ago
Of course, choosing to stand up to the man together with those like minded makes you the real conformist. A deep philosophical conundrum for the prepubescent.
- wat10000 5mo ago
  Life got easier once I realized that being contrarian meant you were just as much controlled by other people as being conformist.
ClikeX 5mo ago
I remember a conspiracy nut telling me "the truth", saying not to believe what the media told me, and do my own research. And then proceeded to point me to a few conspiracy influencers that were telling him what to think. It was very ironic.
throw0101c 5mo ago
> They absolutely conform; by what mechanism do you think they all happened to pick the same bundle of labels and beliefs? Are you conforming/obeying when you believe the Earth is round? That the sky is blue? Perhaps a bunch of people picking "the same bundle of labels and beliefs" is… simply them recognizing/accepting reality?
- the_af 5mo ago
  I don't think it's the same. I like to think of these supremacist/racist conspiracy theories as another form of control: in many cases these people are right to be upset, since they see things in the world that are truly unfair, but their anger gets redirected to bizarre beliefs and racism. So it's a way of controlling and channeling their anger to a place where real change becomes impossible, just anger and venting and weird beliefs in secret Jewish/Muslim/Woke/Illuminati cabals running the world. Real change is hard, and involves compromise and dealing with people with different ideas and goals. Anger against immigrants, or some ethnic or religious group, is easier.