4 ms·

My mother and step-father were both state cops. They put in about 30 years each, but could have retired after 20 years in. They make more in retirement than my

by bpoyner 5mo ago

My mother and step-father were both state cops. They put in about 30 years each, but could have retired after 20 years in. They make more in retirement than my wife and I do. It pays quite well, but it comes with significant risks.

jghn 5mo ago
> but it comes with significant risks But fewer risks than people make it out to be. When people publish the lists of riskiest occupations based on health data, on the job injury data, etc police officers generally wind up around #20 +/-. Meanwhile there are occupations that are much lower paid ahead of them.
- sitkack 5mo ago
  And they are that high just because statistically they are in traffic for such a large amount of time.
  - avs733 5mo ago
    At least in my state the actually high risk portion of their job…dealing with traffic collisions on the highway…is being outsourced to non police “hero units” Tells me we can change what police are and aren’t responsible for, and it is telling which ones they want to drop and which ones they don’t.
    - delecti 5mo ago
      Incidentally, that's a big part of the argument behind "defund the police" (which is poorly named, at best). Instead of having police do everything, almost none of which they have any training in, and making any situation potentially lethal just by virtue of them having guns, there should be specialized units for their various responsibilities.
      - jghn 5mo ago
        Where I live this has also created a secondary debate. Due to union laws, when these jobs are handed off to non-police, the municipality must still pay the prevailing wage, aka what the cops were getting paid. Here it's required to have a police detail at every road based construction site. They get paid overtime to sit there playing candy crush in case maybe something happens requiring them to direct traffic. So it seems like a win-win to replace them with citizen flaggers as it'd remove the cops from that role but also drastically lower cost to the city. But no, it'd mean taking what should be a minimum wage job and paying someone $50-100+/hr to do it. And then the secondary debate is that some people see this as a bad thing and others see it as a good thing.
  - wat10000 5mo ago
    Another decent chunk is medical events. If an officer has a heart attack and dies while on the clock, that's "killed in the line of duty."
- cma 5mo ago
  https://www.bls.gov/iif/additional-publications/archive/dangerous-jobs.pdf https://www.bls.gov/iif/additional-publications/archive/dang... Looking there all that are riskier on deaths either have much lower education requirements, or also pay well.
  - wredcoll 5mo ago
    What job has a lower education requirement than cop??
    - cma 5mo ago
      Which on the list that is riskier has a lower education requirement and isn't also well paid?
- newsclues 5mo ago
  There are lots of ways to quantify or record "risk"? Risk of death? Risk of injury? How much injury? I've had paper cuts recorded as workplace injuries, I've also had to get stitches after bleeding profusely, are both equally recorded as risk incidents? What about the risk of getting shot? Just the risk, will I get shot today, has a physiological impact, is that risk recorded? What about the risk of moral injury? The potential that you're hurt in your soul, because you failed, and someone got injured or hurt? What about the risk of infectious disease or transmission from needles, blades or bodily fluids? Police may be a safer job than forestry from a death risk, but there are many risks for police. I am not sure why some people seem to hate the police so much that downplaying the risks police face. I used to sell drugs and the police were my adversary, but I don't hate them as much as people who have never been arrested. It's very strange. Who do the cop haters call when thieves are breaking into their home with guns?
  - jghn 5mo ago
    > Who do the cop haters call when thieves are breaking into their home with guns? For one thing it doesn't happen that much in the first place. In 2024 the rate was 229.4 per 100k in the USA [1] And yet this always gets cited as some reason to keep the police around. These sorts of threats that people cite are exceedingly rare, and yet used to fuel a vision of the world that's one of requiring constantly vigilance and paranoia. [1] https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/home-invasion-statistics-by-state.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/home-invasion-sta...
    - rationalist 5mo ago
      2 per thousand!? That seems pretty high. Anecdotal: Also, my mom's house was burglarized, unknown if they had guns. After that, she got a home alarm. My mom moved do a different part of the city, and her home was broken into at night while she was asleep. The home invaders continued as the home alarm was going off, and only stopped when a group of male neighbors started shouting at them. Presumably the criminals had weapons to conduct their home invasion.
  - wahnfrieden 5mo ago
superkuh 5mo ago
Pizza delivery drivers face about twice as much risk of on the job injuries via violence when compared to cops. Also twice as much risk of fatal injuries. This mythos the US has with cops does not match reality.
- luma 5mo ago
  Police aren't in the top 10 of most dangerous professions in the USA[1], and when they are injured, it's overwhelmingly the result of traffic accidents. [1]: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.t03.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.t03.htm
  - triceratops 5mo ago
    I've heard this statistic too but do you have a better source? The one you provided only has total injuries, not per 1000 or per capita.
    - luma 5mo ago
      Here's a chart of the top 10 professions per 100,000 FTE (basically, per capita): https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/rate-and-number-of-fatal-work-injuries-in-selected-occupations.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-inju...
      - triceratops 5mo ago
        Thanks!
bcjdjsndon 5mo ago
[flagged]
- triceratops 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - bcjdjsndon 5mo ago
    [flagged]
triceratops 5mo ago
What are the risks? Even among public employees I'd imagine firefighters are in dangerous situations more often. The data doesn't show that policing is an especially high-risk profession. EDIT: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48095469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48095469
- amanaplanacanal 5mo ago
  Most of firefighting is actually getting called because someone had a heart attack. Actually fighting fires is a tiny proportion of their job.
WarmWash 5mo ago
The irony is that the municipalities that pay the most are typically the lowest risk. The most dangerous thing they will do is pull someone over on the side of the highway. Sure, not exactly safe, but also not exactly gunning it out with the bad guys.
throw0101c 5mo ago
> It pays quite well, but it comes with significant risks. Per this 2020 article, police offer is at #22 for fatal injury rate in the US: * https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j...
- HDThoreaun 5mo ago
  That’s really high. There are like tens of thousands of job types
  - array_key_first 5mo ago
    It is really high, but it's high because cops interact with traffic a lot, not because of criminals or guns or whatever. Real life isn't CSI Miami, cops are mostly sitting in cars. You'll notice crossing guard is much higher up the list, for the same reason.
hack1312 5mo ago
Bullshit, being a cop doesn’t even rank in the top 10 most dangerous jobs.

by bpoyner 5mo ago

jghn 5mo ago

> but it comes with significant risks But fewer risks than people make it out to be. When people publish the lists of riskiest occupations based on health data, on the job injury data, etc police officers generally wind up around #20 +/-. Meanwhile there are occupations that are much lower paid ahead of them.

sitkack 5mo ago
And they are that high just because statistically they are in traffic for such a large amount of time.
- avs733 5mo ago
  At least in my state the actually high risk portion of their job…dealing with traffic collisions on the highway…is being outsourced to non police “hero units” Tells me we can change what police are and aren’t responsible for, and it is telling which ones they want to drop and which ones they don’t.
  - delecti 5mo ago
    Incidentally, that's a big part of the argument behind "defund the police" (which is poorly named, at best). Instead of having police do everything, almost none of which they have any training in, and making any situation potentially lethal just by virtue of them having guns, there should be specialized units for their various responsibilities.
    - jghn 5mo ago
      Where I live this has also created a secondary debate. Due to union laws, when these jobs are handed off to non-police, the municipality must still pay the prevailing wage, aka what the cops were getting paid. Here it's required to have a police detail at every road based construction site. They get paid overtime to sit there playing candy crush in case maybe something happens requiring them to direct traffic. So it seems like a win-win to replace them with citizen flaggers as it'd remove the cops from that role but also drastically lower cost to the city. But no, it'd mean taking what should be a minimum wage job and paying someone $50-100+/hr to do it. And then the secondary debate is that some people see this as a bad thing and others see it as a good thing.
- wat10000 5mo ago
  Another decent chunk is medical events. If an officer has a heart attack and dies while on the clock, that's "killed in the line of duty."
cma 5mo ago
https://www.bls.gov/iif/additional-publications/archive/dangerous-jobs.pdf https://www.bls.gov/iif/additional-publications/archive/dang... Looking there all that are riskier on deaths either have much lower education requirements, or also pay well.
- wredcoll 5mo ago
  What job has a lower education requirement than cop??
  - cma 5mo ago
    Which on the list that is riskier has a lower education requirement and isn't also well paid?
newsclues 5mo ago
There are lots of ways to quantify or record "risk"? Risk of death? Risk of injury? How much injury? I've had paper cuts recorded as workplace injuries, I've also had to get stitches after bleeding profusely, are both equally recorded as risk incidents? What about the risk of getting shot? Just the risk, will I get shot today, has a physiological impact, is that risk recorded? What about the risk of moral injury? The potential that you're hurt in your soul, because you failed, and someone got injured or hurt? What about the risk of infectious disease or transmission from needles, blades or bodily fluids? Police may be a safer job than forestry from a death risk, but there are many risks for police. I am not sure why some people seem to hate the police so much that downplaying the risks police face. I used to sell drugs and the police were my adversary, but I don't hate them as much as people who have never been arrested. It's very strange. Who do the cop haters call when thieves are breaking into their home with guns?
- jghn 5mo ago
  > Who do the cop haters call when thieves are breaking into their home with guns? For one thing it doesn't happen that much in the first place. In 2024 the rate was 229.4 per 100k in the USA [1] And yet this always gets cited as some reason to keep the police around. These sorts of threats that people cite are exceedingly rare, and yet used to fuel a vision of the world that's one of requiring constantly vigilance and paranoia. [1] https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/home-invasion-statistics-by-state.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/home-invasion-sta...
  - rationalist 5mo ago
    2 per thousand!? That seems pretty high. Anecdotal: Also, my mom's house was burglarized, unknown if they had guns. After that, she got a home alarm. My mom moved do a different part of the city, and her home was broken into at night while she was asleep. The home invaders continued as the home alarm was going off, and only stopped when a group of male neighbors started shouting at them. Presumably the criminals had weapons to conduct their home invasion.
- wahnfrieden 5mo ago

superkuh 5mo ago

Pizza delivery drivers face about twice as much risk of on the job injuries via violence when compared to cops. Also twice as much risk of fatal injuries. This mythos the US has with cops does not match reality.

luma 5mo ago
Police aren't in the top 10 of most dangerous professions in the USA[1], and when they are injured, it's overwhelmingly the result of traffic accidents. [1]: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.t03.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.t03.htm
- triceratops 5mo ago
  I've heard this statistic too but do you have a better source? The one you provided only has total injuries, not per 1000 or per capita.
  - luma 5mo ago
    Here's a chart of the top 10 professions per 100,000 FTE (basically, per capita): https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/rate-and-number-of-fatal-work-injuries-in-selected-occupations.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-inju...
    - triceratops 5mo ago
      Thanks!

bcjdjsndon 5mo ago

[flagged]

triceratops 5mo ago
[flagged]
- bcjdjsndon 5mo ago
  [flagged]

triceratops 5mo ago

What are the risks? Even among public employees I'd imagine firefighters are in dangerous situations more often. The data doesn't show that policing is an especially high-risk profession. EDIT: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48095469 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48095469

amanaplanacanal 5mo ago
Most of firefighting is actually getting called because someone had a heart attack. Actually fighting fires is a tiny proportion of their job.

WarmWash 5mo ago

The irony is that the municipalities that pay the most are typically the lowest risk. The most dangerous thing they will do is pull someone over on the side of the highway. Sure, not exactly safe, but also not exactly gunning it out with the bad guys.

throw0101c 5mo ago

> It pays quite well, but it comes with significant risks. Per this 2020 article, police offer is at #22 for fatal injury rate in the US: * https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j...

HDThoreaun 5mo ago
That’s really high. There are like tens of thousands of job types
- array_key_first 5mo ago
  It is really high, but it's high because cops interact with traffic a lot, not because of criminals or guns or whatever. Real life isn't CSI Miami, cops are mostly sitting in cars. You'll notice crossing guard is much higher up the list, for the same reason.

hack1312 5mo ago

Bullshit, being a cop doesn’t even rank in the top 10 most dangerous jobs.